JC2 and STEAM

[JRD]

... and I am waiting for a good deal to get Portal  8)

[Art Blade]

tell you what, I'll give in and get that fricking JC2 game on DVD ;D

[JRD]

 ;D

Looking forward to see how you like it!!

[Art Blade]

 ;D

still need to install w7 in order to run the game, dual boot pc... argh  :)

[PZ]

tell you what, I'll give in and get that fricking JC2 game on DVD ;D

I'm glad that you've decided to do so - I think that you'll really like the game because of the way that you experimented with FC2.

EDIT: I didn't even see the tiny notice on the box that indicated that Vista was the minimum OS!

[Art Blade]

yeah, they keep doing that, don't they. Tiny little boxes with even tinier little letters... announcing IMPORTANT information... thanks to one online seller who published the requirements I already knew (and posted) about that tiny little fact.

[PZ]

Indeed they do - and I was even using my reading glasses.  The text was so small that I might not have been able to read it even with my glasses if I didn't already know what it said.

[GPFontaine]

Hey guys.  I am not a Just Cause gamer... yet.  Actually as I have stated elsewhere I rarely ever purchase games when they first come out, I tend to wait until they hit the bargain bin.  Three years ago when I used to play that horrible online MMORGP that consumes the life blood out of a person I missed so many games that I just decided catching up was pointless, instead I'd enjoy everything a little late and with a reduced cost.

Back on topic though, I wanted to explain a bit about why STEAM being mandatory for a game is actually a good thing.

STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay.  The check in does a few things.
1. It verifies that the games are in fact not hacked.  This reduces online cheating.
2. The check in acts as a form of DRM.  It proves that you own the license for the game content.
3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM.  I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up.  This is awesome for gamers.
4.  The system automatically handles system requirements and patches.  No more DirectX updates that you don't understand, or C++ Runtime blah blah blah... they just do it for you.  Games don't require patches for fixes, they are updated through the system directly.  This means you always have the updated version and don't need to research online if the developer has created new content.
5.  Downloadable Content can be automated through Steam so that external site access isn't required.  New levels, upgrades, etc can all be pushed or purchased without having to go to multiple vendors.
6.  Games are always played through the in game interface.  You can hit Shift+Tab to gain access to a web browser, CD Keys, store information, downloadable content and more without exiting the game.  The new interface (beta) is improving upon this and will be have things such as a clock and better browsing.
7.  Because the check in is tied to a user account, you can actually install games on as many machines as you want and play them wherever you want.

Valve has stated that if STEAM looks like it is going out of business or is in trouble, they will patch all games and offer them for download.  Also, it should be noted that games can be backed up.



I do have two huge problems with STEAM.

A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account.  Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared.  They are on console systems.

[JRD]

You make good points GP... nice touch to a enlightening discussion...   :-X

STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay.  The check in does a few things.

I didn`t know that GP... what if you don`t check in once a month?

3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM.  I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up.  This is awesome for gamers.

It didn`t occured to me. I was thinking the other way around... big companies making more money by reducing the production costs, but now that you mention... small fish companies have their chance to get into the business, which means more option for us and more competition to shark companies  ;)

I do have two huge problems with STEAM.

A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account.  Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared.  They are on console systems.

I heard about A too... they seem to have options for you to get in touch with them if it ever happens to you but I really don`t know how they handle that kind of situation.
As for B, you can always let your kids use your account to play, provided you can be sure they are not accessing mature content or doing more purchases in your name without you knowing it, but else, I agree that you could list two or three "dependents" in your account and manage their access to some games and features (like the "purchase" button  ;) )

[GPFontaine]

STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay.  The check in does a few things.

I didn`t know that GP... what if you don`t check in once a month?

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555
The 30 days thing used to be true, I'm not sure if it still exists, it might not anymore.  I'll have to dig and see if I can find more details.  From what I can tell, as long as you login one time and run the game, you can then keep it in offline mode indefinitely.

3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM.  I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up.  This is awesome for gamers.

It didn`t occured to me. I was thinking the other way around... big companies making more money by reducing the production costs, but now that you mention... small fish companies have their chance to get into the business, which means more option for us and more competition to shark companies  ;)

I have purchased a few AWESOME games because of this.

• Braid
• Defense Grid: The Awakening
• Torchlight
• Plants vs. Zombies
• Trine

I do have two huge problems with STEAM.

A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account.  Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared.  They are on console systems.

I heard about A too... they seem to have options for you to get in touch with them if it ever happens to you but I really don`t know how they handle that kind of situation.
As for B, you can always let your kids use your account to play, provided you can be sure they are not accessing mature content or doing more purchases in your name without you knowing it, but else, I agree that you could list two or three "dependents" in your account and manage their access to some games and features (like the "purchase" button  ;) )

Reclaiming a Hijacked Steam Account:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2347-QDFN-4366

I am guessing that Steam will never fix the dependents issue.  It should be pretty cut and dry, if you file taxes together, you can share games.

[PZ]

Very valuable explanation GP - thanks for the detailed post  :-X

[Art Blade]

yes, thanks GP :) Also, thanks to JRD and GP for the exchange of thoughts.  :-X

[JRD]

I always use offline mode unless, of course, I'm downloading a game  :P

Eventually I fire STEAM while online so it can download patches and updates.

By the way, I just played a bit of Burnout Paradise while connected, a game I didn't play for months (maybe since october or november 2009) and absolutely nothing changed or appeared to me to remind me of that once a month thing (which I found a relif, actually  ::) ), so I guess this 30 days thing either never existed or is gone for good now.

My STEAM shows 11 titles I purchased, so imagine if, once a month, I had to fire those games... what a pain in the butt :-\

As far as I know, once you purchase a game via STEAM, its yours to do as you like as long as you respect the license agreement, which is pretty much the same as in any other game/software you buy.

And I will sure look carefully into those titles you posted... very intersting ideed... cheers mate.  :-X

[GPFontaine]

Because I don't play Just Cause 2, I didn't realize that there was just a patch pushed as of only four days ago.

Steam automatically pushes the patch along with some free bonus downloadable content (DLC).

http://store.steampowered.com/news/3679/

[batdog]

I see STEAM as almost the PC version of the XBox Live experience (can't comment on PlayStation Network but I'm sure it's similar). Access to downloadable games and demos, patches are automatically pushed, communicating with friends while playing, consistent interface, etc. They occasionally run free weekends where you can download and play the latest multiplayer titles for free for the whole weekend.

JRD has pointed out some of the benefits of STEAM. I would also include the fact that you can integrate games not sold through STEAM into the interface, which means not needing the physical CD/DVD to run it.  I added Thief:Deadly Shadows to STEAM which meant that in future all I needed to do was open STEAM and run the game from there.

The only problem for me is that my PC, from a gaming perspective, takes second place to the Xbox 360.  With Fuel, FC2, JC2, Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the rest battling for attention on my console then STEAM gets little of my business now, although I do think it's a GOOD THING.

[GPFontaine]

The only problem for me is that my PC, from a gaming perspective, takes second place to the Xbox 360.  With Fuel, FC2, JC2, Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the rest battling for attention on my console then STEAM gets little of my business now, although I do think it's a GOOD THING.

More than any reason, this is why STEAM is so important.  Windows and OS X have done a terrible job at collecting games and making them run in a consistent centralized way.  People have left the platform in favor of consoles due to the ease of use and growing number of media features.  STEAM is trying to bring back PC gaming and not let it die off just because GameStop makes more cash by pushing XBOX 360 titles.

[PZ]

My short experience with STEAM confirms your comments, GP and batdog - however, it is even easier for me to use on the PC rather than the PlayStation network on my console - functions are very similar but somehow it is just orders of magnitude faster on STEAM.

I noticed a feature that was disabled by default - something about wanting to test out new games. When I activated the feature, STEAM updated itself and the interface looks way cool - don't know what the function is yet though - have not investigated.

[JRD]

Guess they'll make some demos and betas available for you to install via your interface.

I may be wrong though!

[PZ]

That's what it sounds like - they had a couple in my list that I don't have, yet STEAM was making available to me to play.

[Art Blade]

We have a new contribution in another topic, so by quoting it here we may continue the discussion... ;)

Steam

I remember my first experience with Steam a couple of years ago. I bought a copy of GTR: Evolution in a shop and when I tried to install it, it gave two options: Single Player (no need for Steam activation) and the Multiplayer with Steam install. I had never heard of Steam so avoided it. For some reason, the standalone didn't install or activate right so I did the Steam version that also istalled that application.  You had to make an account to activate,  which I didn't like, but did anyway... Must have played a few times and then moved on.

Roll forward a few years, and I forgot about Steam. Got a copy of DiRT2 with graphics card, and you needed Steam to download and activate. Didn't like the idea, but did it anyway. Had to make an account, but had forgotten I had an old one. Then when trying to re-install GTR:E that I had to activate. I figured I'd add it to my new account with DiRT2. That's when I hit an issue...

Steam said the game had already been activated on a different account and I couldn't do it. Realising I about my previous history with Steam, I tried to remember my old account info and eventually figured it out. Logged in and yep, there GTR:E was, still registered.

1. I didn't want two accounts so I investigated having them merged or one deleted and the game transfered... But from my efforts I found out Steam under no circumstances allows that! So logically, I realised that I couldn't really ever sell on a Steam activated game to anyone else! Further reading showed it's also against the rules to pass your Steam account on to another user etc... etc...

2. I had been planning to buy many games through it, but decided this lack of flexibility was a bad sign and uninstalled Steam... Which of course wiped DiRT2, as I also found out games installed under Steam are installed within it's own folder structure! I'm sure that's convenient for many, but I like to have that custom option of choosing the install location myself. (I'm weird about organising my HDD.)

Both these reasons were good enough to prefer buying my games from normal retailers, so I then played around and managed to backup DiRT2 install folder from under the SteamApps\Common (as I remember) directory and stick it under my own Codemasters one in my game installs folder.... And it works, but it's just not "installed" in the Windows registry or listed in the Control Panel>Programs & Features applet.

However, it probably works because it was activated under Steam. Issue is if I bought anymore Valve software, I'd have to do the same. Hopefully not for other games I buy retail.

I have gone on a bit, but I really think this activation stuff and these new online distribution things are making life more complicated for users, not to mention creating more avenues for bugs.

It would have been better if Steam did it like Stardock's Impulse and let you install the app whereever the hell you like, and then remove Impulse if you don't like it, or keep it for auto updates or new purchases.

Now I think Microsoft is joining in the fun too, which means MS games available through Steam need you to activate on both or you get no game saves! LOL

I like to keep my PC software to a minimum and prefer to organise things my own way, so I will keep trying to avoid this new trend and keep buying retail as I also like to have my own physical copy for cherished games.

Very interesting read and basically expressing just the same ideas, feelings and worries that I have got. I too like to organise my HD and almost always use my very own structure as where to install software.

[fragger]

I like to keep my PC software to a minimum and prefer to organise things my own way, so I will keep trying to avoid this new trend and keep buying retail as I also like to have my own physical copy for cherished games.

Look out though, Nick! Even buying a game from a store won't mean that you can avoid online activation, or dealing with vendors like Steam.

I purchased Modern Warfare 2 in a store a while back. When I tried to install it, a message appeared telling me that I had to access my Steam account to do so (I neglected to read the fine-print on the box...) I already had a Steam account from when I'd purchased the Half-Life games online from them some time before, so I didn't think it would be too big a deal. But when I connected to Steam, they messed with my head by telling me that the game hadn't in fact been released yet - despite the fact that there was a real, material disk in my DVD tray, with "Modern Warfare 2" printed on it, ready to launch. I had to wait a day until Steam "released" the game before I could install, register, and activate it. I do remember colouring the air somewhat at the time. I think I raved on about how I'd expect to have to activate a game online if I'd actually bought it online, but shouldn't have to do that with a store-bought one - not to mention the ludicrousness of being told in effect that even though I had a legitimately purchased, physical product, I really didn't have it until Steam said I did.

Some love Steam, some hate it, and some are ambivalent. Steam has its benefits, to be sure, but it also has some shortcomings, so I guess you have to weigh those up compared to your gaming and/or online situation. However, it looks like that's the way the market is going. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is largely a matter of opinion.

[Art Blade]

Some time ago I talked with some friends about the future of home computers and internet. My prediction is that we will end up with a visual device (monitor, HUD or some such) and an input device (keyboard or whatever). No more hardware. No CPU, GPU or HD. That stuff will be somewhere out there in a big company and all we do is connect our home with their "products."

There are already the basic structures and applications available. Google company is just one of the early precursors, their many apps that allow shared group w@&k and storage of files, then Steam with your games in their hands, go some place and download it (again)... it will be easier to just connect, not download any more... Companies will get and care for and about our personal data. Kind of "1984" big brother. The world wants to be connected and the internet is the present structure, but we are limited by hardware we need to purchase and that is either stationary (desk top) or mobile (net top, lap top, cell phone). To make things easier, companies will try to reduce you to a mere user, and in the end just give you an interface.

The good old times and the old world of physical media are crumbling and tumbling down.

[fragger]

That's actually a pretty scary scenario. Scary because it's certainly not outside the bounds of plausibility.

[PZ]

... To make things easier, companies will try to reduce you to a mere user, and in the end just give you an interface.

Reminds me of the old "dumb terminals" that connected the user to a mainframe.- I guess we're coming full circle with that idea.

[B33 ENN]

Hey chaps!

Well, I've never been anti-progress, even when at times I know it's meant losing a way of life I was accustomed and happy with, as long as it is progress.

Steam, and such like, offer a lot of convenience and features that makes online distribution a good idea. I was very attracted by the fact that I don't need to travel to one of very few street outlets left that might stock the PC games I want; or order from an online retailer, pay extra for delivery as well as wait for it to arrive...

I think Valve was the first to innovate in this direction, and is still the numero uno player. Microsoft is doing what it always does, like with Internet Explorer years ago in the "browser wars" and trying to hardwire it to the OS to win market share. I think that's Games for Windows Live? I like their idea less as rather than integrating it to your standard MSN passport/email account, it seems to be another applet that installs on the PC and looks almost exactly like Live Messenger...  ::) Of course, the Games Explorer in Vista and 7 that is meanto to basically organise your games isn't properly followed by many developers so it never works right anyway, leading to more disorganisation on your PC.

This is why I prefer to organise my PC the way I like. Some time ago, I remember trying to get WindowBlinds software from Stardock. It seemed to do a Steam type thing and install Impulse applet, which is their equivalent to Steam.

Well, I still have it on my PC today even though I have not bought anything else from them. Why?

1. Impuse allows the software installer to w@&k like any standalone, you can choose the Express or Custom, and install where you want.
2. If you uninstall Impulse, it does not remove your software, or invalidate the license.
3. If you keep Impulse, you can select off-line mode and never run it again.
4. If you run Impulse yourself, or on auto, it will offer to update your software when new patches or new .exe are available.


The Impulse and Steam applets are laid out virtually identically, but the colours and styling is unique. They may even be made by the same software company for these online distributors.

If Steam would:

a) allow installers to w@&k same as retail DVD versions, and have control over install path
b) allow you to remove Steam without uninstalling/de-registering your downloaded games
c) not need separate Steam unique versions of patches/updates/mods and w@&k with standard developer or community releases.
d) have better customer account management for handling problems/errors

then I would probably be okay with it.

[RantMode=1]
>:( I hate they way modern developers keep trying to dumb down software and procedures assuming every PC owner can only understand "My Documents" or "My Pictures" and needs everything predetermined or they'll have a nervous breakdown. Modern OS's and software are getting more advanced and there are knowledgeable users that don't have a default system layout, and need the advanced options. That's why they had "Express" or "Custom" install in the first place. So why can't Steam offer a basic mode, and an advanced mode for managing your downloads? But I think most of all I'm unimpressed by their limited "do it our way, or it's the highway" approach to customer service. >:(
[RantMode=0]

;D