One of the world's biggest icons

[nex]

https://www.wsj.com/video/behind-the-wheel-of-the-first-car-ever-called-porsche/54DAD75B-E7AA-43CB-B2C4-2C21827941D2.html

[PZ]

The shape of that car reminds me of the Messerschmitt Me 262

[fragger]

Nice find, nex Heh, engine in the back, like a VW.

You can see the early design philosophies that would evolve into the Porsches we're familiar with today. Quite futuristic-looking for its day, very interesting

@PZ, yeah, it does look like a ME262!

Fun fact, the ME262's fuselage was modeled on a shark's body (you probably knew that already though). I always thought it was a great-looking aircraft.

[PZ]

It was definitely ahead of it's time

[nex]

Thanks fragger, I'd like to know what it's top speed was at the time.
And the outcome could have been very different if the ME262 was in use early in the war

[Art Blade]

Nice find, nex Heh, engine in the back, like a VW.

yes, nice find

and yes, even today the engine is still in the back. You sometimes see a person not familiar with that car (a guest) walking with a piece of luggage to the back of the car about to open the boot when the owner stops them: "No.. the bonnet is not in the front."

[nex]

My mom was one of them Art, my first two cars were both vw beetles

[Art Blade]

[fragger]

nex, Me 262 top speed was 869 kph (540 mph), which was of course way faster than any piston-engine fighters the Allies possessed. Its speed could actually be a liability however, especially from head-on because such a fast closure rate gave the pilots very little time to aim and fire effectively.

You are correct in that they came too late in the war. And fortunately for the Allies, Hitler ordered that all Me 262s be employed in ground-support roles (in a vain attempt to halt the advance of the Red Army) for which they were neither designed nor suited. Had they arrived earlier, and been utilized for their main purpose of bomber interception, they could indeed have wreaked havoc on the Allied bomber streams, especially the Americans who flew their missions in daylight. US bomber crew losses would no doubt have been even more appalling - and they were pretty terrible as they were.

A major drawback of the Me 262's design was that some of the metals required (nickel, cobalt, and molybdenum) to cope with engine heat were either prohibitively expensive, or in too short supply - or both - to be viable. So alternate, less-effective metallurgy was employed which made the engines mass-producible but with significantly shortened operational life spans. They were pretty well worn out after just a few missions and would need to be replaced. The aircraft was essentially too far ahead of its time, but it's still an impressive example of how advanced German engineering was at the time.

[Dweller_Benthos]

Didn't the ME262 also have the problem of being so fast it would catch up to it's own bullets? Or was that another jet? Anyway, it was definitely ahead of it's time and also one of the coolest planes ever made. I've been a fan of it ever since I first saw it on the cover of the Blue Öyster Cult album Secret Treaties, on which there is a song titled after it.

[nex]

Thanks for the info fragger.
That brings me back to my days In the Fire Dept at OT Airport (Joburg International) Jan Smuts International Airport (JSA)
as it was known when I was there.
Two Aircraft mechanics stumbled upon the fuselage of a Spitfire on a scrap heap, they purchased it and moved it to a local Airfield
where they started restoring it, they managed to find bits and pieces of other Spitfires from all over the world, I can't remember all the detail
but they managed to restore it to it's former glory.
http://aircraftnut.blogspot.com/2012/11/spitfire-whatever-became-of-evelyn.html

Because it wasn't fitted with Radar they had to move it to JSA and with permission
from SAAF and Civil Aviation they could test it over JSA airspace accompanied by an SAAF Impala Jet Fighter.
http://www.pilotspost.co.za/arn0000671

With me being a Senior Officer at the time, and when on duty during the day I was assigned to do standby with my Firetender next to the runway,
the firetender is equipped with radio so we were in constant contact with the Impala Pilot, he often said to us over the radio that this damn Spitfire is making
a fool out of him, while flying in formation the Spitfire's on Starboard the one moment then on port side the next.     

[Art Blade]

 

very nice articles/photos in those links you posted, nex

[fragger]

I've been a fan of it ever since I first saw it on the cover of the Blue Öyster Cult album Secret Treaties, on which there is a song titled after it.

Heh, I was the other way around - I bought that BOC album because there was a picture of a Me 262 on the cover, even though I'd never heard any of their music (although I had heard of them). I thought any band with a Me 262 on their album cover just had to be cool It was a good impulse buy, I've been a fan of theirs ever since and I still own most of their albums.

@nex, great story and info mate, cheers Yep, the Spitfire is indeed another glamourpuss from WW2, along with the American P51 Mustang (though aesthetically, the Spitfire just edges out the Mustang for me. The later Spits however began to resemble the Mustangs more and more, with squared-off wingtips and tails, and teardrop-type bubble canopies. I like the earlier models better for sheer looks). The Spitfire and the Mustang are my two favourite propeller jobs from the era

Funny how there are actually more vintage WW2-era aircraft flying today than there were 40-50 years ago, thanks to passionate restorers and the internet which makes it easier for them to seek out like-minded people around the world to assist with tracking down parts, etc.

The Impala too is a very handsome aircraft, reminds me a lot of the Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star but with even nicer lines. Many of the early jets were quite graceful-looking, before fly-by-wire systems and ever-more highly developed tech began to dictate the designs and make them more angular. Computer-controlled fly-by-wire systems are almost all that keep many state-of-the-art jets in the air these days.

[Art Blade]

I used to play this Aces of the Pacific back in 1992 and it included all kinds of aircraft. I liked dogfights the most and for that, American and British planes. Unforgettable those crashes when trying to land on a carrier I loved it. Until I was allowed to fly my first Japanese Zero. Oh sweet Jebus, that was a world of a difference. I loved the Zero's manoeuvrability and speed.. they didn't have much armour so getting hit wasn't fun but outrunning and outmanoeuvering enemy planes was just so much fun.. the Zero was almost unbeatable. I know there are different types of Zeroes but I mean one of the earlier, lighter versions that were really, really fast. Climbing into the sky and over the clouds was just sooo cool.

One year later, 1993, Aces over Europe was published (I didn't like it as much, less dogfights, more bombing missions.. bah) and it included a ME262 which could only be flown at the end of the game. I hated its handling because hey, dogfights with a jet engine plane versus propeller planes are silly. At first you don't even see your enemy and once you do, you've already passed them. Which is why I never liked modern military aircraft sims. Too fast. I also never liked WWI flight sims, too slow and you can't see *bleep* in those planes. I really liked WWII dogfights, and that era was gone.

[fragger]

I hated its handling because hey, dogfights with a jet engine plane versus propeller planes are silly. At first you don't even see your enemy and once you do, you've already passed them.

Actual Me 262 pilots had the very same gripe - almost never got a chance to shoot But then, they weren't designed to dogfight, they were intended to destroy bombers. Even then, and even when approaching bombers from behind, they didn't get much time to line up.

You can also fly a Me 262 in the Wings of Prey game. I might fire that back up actually, it was on my old PC, don't have it on this one. It should go really well. I had to tone down a lot of the graphics on my old rig. I think I'll try it out tomorrow and see how it goes.