I'm thinking about making a tiny home

[mandru]

I've been aware of the Tesla Powerwall since they were first announced.  I thought they were a great idea.

Originally the Powerwall batteries could be purchased separately and stacked to suit your usage needs in your home to either be charged off of your feed from the power company or a solar panel.

Now at some point they have changed their sales policy so that you have to buy solar panels to be able to buy the batteries and you can't even get the price of the systems unless you are actually placing an order.  There's a very long waiting list for product delivery (months or possibly years) when buying directly from Tesla.  It might be a faster option to find a local installer who has them in their inventory.

[nex]

What I like about this system is the fact that there's only one battery, other suppliers have a battery bank depending on how big your system is.
One installer quoted 14 panels supplying a bank of 4 batteries that will only give me about 4-5 hours electricity, but I have to switch off the geyser, the hob, and the oven, for around 210,000 SA Rand.
The system I have has 8 panels, but these panels are bigger, with a 5kva inverter and a 5kWh battery, for 170,000 SA Rand.
There are 2 distribution boards, one for Solar and the other for municipality power which only supplies power to the geyser, the hob, and the oven, the rest of the house runs permanently on solar. Towards the end of this year we are going to double up on the entire system, we must remain connected to municipality power by law, but that's fine, it will only serve as a backup once we've done the upgrade.   

[Dweller_Benthos]

That sounds cool, being able to go completely solar. A big investment at the start but no bills after that (almost) and no worries about power outages. We don't get enough sun here for that, we'd need a huge battery to hold us over on those weeks when there's little to no sunlight. During the summer though it probably wouldn't be too bad.

But I've been wondering, what's a geyser? Something water related, I presume? And I don't even have a guess as to what a hob is lol.

[PZ]

Now at some point they have changed their sales policy so that you have to buy solar panels to be able to buy the batteries and you can't even get the price of the systems unless you are actually placing an order.  There's a very long waiting list for product delivery (months or possibly years) when buying directly from Tesla.  It might be a faster option to find a local installer who has them in their inventory.

I personally do not like that kind of corporate leveraging which diminishes Tesla a bit for me. I'm familiar with long wait lists for product that should be available through the manufacturer. Trying to purchase my new Canon lens through Canon resulted in being put on a long wait list. I was particularly annoyed because at the time of purchase the site indicated it was "in stock". It was only when we actually made the purchase the receipt indicated that it was back ordered. At first I thought it was an error, but when I contacted them they said it was true and could not even give me a time of arrival other than "it usually is about two weeks". I canceled the order, went to Best Buy and had the lens the next day.

This is not the first time I have tried to get product from the manufacturer only to be thwarted.

What I like about this system is the fact that there's only one battery, other suppliers have a battery bank depending on how big your system is.
One installer quoted 14 panels supplying a bank of 4 batteries that will only give me about 4-5 hours electricity, but I have to switch off the geyser, the hob, and the oven, for around 210,000 SA Rand.
The system I have has 8 panels, but these panels are bigger, with a 5kva inverter and a 5kWh battery, for 170,000 SA Rand.
There are 2 distribution boards, one for Solar and the other for municipality power which only supplies power to the geyser, the hob, and the oven, the rest of the house runs permanently on solar. Towards the end of this year we are going to double up on the entire system, we must remain connected to municipality power by law, but that's fine, it will only serve as a backup once we've done the upgrade.   

I like the one battery idea because for my purpose (tiny house) that would be all that is needed. I've also investigated a hybrid system in which both solar and wind are used to keep batteries charged. Quite effective in some marginal areas for wind and sun, it does not affect my place because I have neither reliable wind nor sun. 

I started this alternate form of energy hoping that I could find a solution that is automatic and sustainable, but I'm afraid I would expend much personal energy without much effect. I'm now thinking that a simple Honda generator is likely the best solution. The EU 2200i Companion has a connector for a 30A RV plug (I already have one from my RV). 2200 watts is plenty to operate anything I would like, from lights, devices, and of course television. The only issue appears to be the generator only operates for a few hours due to a small fuel tank. However I discovered a company that makes a converter allowing propane to be used as fuel, extending the run time to 20 hours or so.

I like things simple, so generator seems to be the way to go.

But I've been wondering, what's a geyser? Something water related, I presume? And I don't even have a guess as to what a hob is lol.

lol, I have the same questions!

[mandru]

I'm now thinking that a simple Honda generator is likely the best solution. The EU 2200i Companion has a connector for a 30A RV plug (I already have one from my RV). 2200 watts is plenty to operate anything I would like, from lights, devices, and of course television. The only issue appears to be the generator only operates for a few hours due to a small fuel tank. However I discovered a company that makes a converter allowing propane to be used as fuel, extending the run time to 20 hours or so.

I don't know about the quality of the brand but the Costco flyer that becomes effective March 9 - April 3 has a Firman Dual Fuel (gasoline and propane) Inverter Generator that's(claimed) 4000watt at start up but more likely runs 2700 watts continuous.  From what I've read inverter generators are the more efficient generator type.

I was in Costco yesterday and looked the Firman over.  According to the packaging when running on propane it provides a lower power output than if gasoline is used.  That doesn't quite make sense to me because propane has a higher octane (104  - 112) than gasoline (87 - 92) but then there's a lot of stuff I don't understand. 

If you have a local service that delivers propane to keep a 100 or maybe 200 gallon tank topped off as you need it that option would keep your generator running for a considerable extended length of time.

[nex]

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Hot water heater (geyser)
They're available in 100, 150, and 200 liters and are mostly installed in the ceiling of a house.

Oh and sorry about the hob, it's the stove hob

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[fragger]

Thanks nex, I too was wondering about "geyser" and "hob". We call them respectively "water heater" and "stovetop". Pretty prosaic, huh?

It's interesting how localized terminology evolves. For example, what Americans call a car's "hood", we call a "bonnet", and what they call a car's "trunk", we call a "boot". We also say "petrol" instead of "gas", "chips" instead of "fries", and "thongs" instead of "flip-flops". There are plenty of other examples.

So if I was in the States and I told someone I like to wear thongs to the beach, it would probably raise a few eyebrows

You guys' info about backup and solar power is quite informative, cheers all. I'm not in the market at present, but it's cool to get an idea of what's available should I be.

[PZ]

So if I was in the States and I told someone I like to wear thongs to the beach, it would probably raise a few eyebrows

I want to respond to the topic in a proper way, but I nearly choked on my coffee when I read your comment!

[PZ]

I was in Costco yesterday and looked the Firman over.  According to the packaging when running on propane it provides a lower power output than if gasoline is used.  That doesn't quite make sense to me because propane has a higher octane (104  - 112) than gasoline (87 - 92) but then there's a lot of stuff I don't understand. 

I do not understand the difference in performance either, but that claim is consistent with all I have seen on the 'net regarding generator fuel efficiency. I plan to use a standard 20 lb propane tank (like is used with a BBQ) because all I would need for emergency is enough run time for overnight without having to go outside in the cold to refuel the generator.

Thanks for posting that link - I did not know Costco sold that item - it is not on our shelves. The only downside is weight. It is over double the Honda weight. However, it is definitely an option to consider because I would love to use the generator for the tiny house as well as the RV. I just need to get something 100 lbs. to see if I can manage the weight considering how I will need to move the unit.

@nex Thanks for the clarification - I never imagined a horizontal tank, nor having it mounted in the ceiling. Sounds like a great idea actually.

[nex]

Having one in the ceiling have their fair share of disadvantages, they can only be removed or installed via the roof. Tiled roofs are fine, it's the steel roof sheets that pose a problem, you have to remove at least two roof sheets to be able to get the geyser in.  Our largest "geyser" manufacturer has started producing electrically sealed units for outside mounting, they are mounted vertically against a wall.

[PZ]

I hadn't thought about the installation. What you describe sounds awfully complicated.

[nex]

It's not a huge problem if the roof is tiled like ours, luckily the installers do it often enough so they're quite good at it.
The next time my geyser packs up I'm going to have it replaced with an outside one.

[Dweller_Benthos]

Ah thanks for the info, Nex! Yeah we just call them hot water heaters here, lol! Ours is an instant, on-demand system, no tank. It only starts up when you turn on hot water somewhere in the house. So there's no tank to keep warm all the time, saves a huge amount of energy over a model with a tank. Ours runs on propane though, not electric, so it's just tied in with the rest of the propane systems like the furnace and cooking stove. The stovetop (hob) is part of the oven so it's an all in one kind of thing, but uses propane not electric. But, all those systems need electricity to run thermostats, timers, etc, so there's also a need to have reliable electric service available. The clothes dryer is the biggest use of electric I have, the rest is all typical electronics like TVs, computers, etc. And of course, the lights.

[PZ]

Ah thanks for the info, Nex! Yeah we just call them hot water heaters here, lol! Ours is an instant, on-demand system, no tank. It only starts up when you turn on hot water somewhere in the house. So there's no tank to keep warm all the time, saves a huge amount of energy over a model with a tank.

How do you like the tankless versus regular water heater?  One of my geysers is in a small utility closet and takes up way too much space. Sounds like tankless might be a good solution if it gives plenty of hot water.

[Dweller_Benthos]

How do you like the tankless versus regular water heater?  One of my geysers is in a small utility closet and takes up way too much space. Sounds like tankless might be a good solution if it gives plenty of hot water.

There's a couple trade-offs with a tankless heater. Well, really only one, for me anyway and I never notice it so none really. If you're the type of person who turns the hot water on and off all the time, expecting there to always be hot water there, then you might be disappointed. My cousin's wife complains about this as she's the type of person who washes the dishes by hand (I know, that level of weird) and then rinses each dish after washing under the faucet with hot water. Well, a tankless heater doesn't supply continuous hot water like that, when you turn off the water, it turns off so there's a section of cold water in the pipe, then you turn the hot water on and it gets hot. This is called the "cold water sandwich" by some people. This does not bother me in the slightest as I don't wash dishes by hand first off because I'm a sane person and let the machine do it and second whenever I need hot water, I turn the faucet on, then when I'm done, turn it off. None of this on and off stuff and really I rarely use hot water out of the faucet anyway, mostly the machines use it like the dishwasher, clothes washer, etc, and they get hot water when they need it. I do run the water for the dishwasher ahead of time so that there's hot water there for it when it starts, because the heater is on the opposite end of the house and it takes a long time for the hot water to get there, so I run the water into a jug until the hot water shows up then dump that jug into the clothes washer to keep from wasting the water.

But when taking a shower or whatever, the hot water shows up fairly quickly as it's closer to the heater unit and has no problem keeping it hot the duration. I think my unit is a medium size one, you can also get smaller ones and have them closer to where you use the water so the time to get hot water at the faucet would be shorter if that's important to you. With propane units, you have to think about venting them and it's best to have them vented to the outside so mounting them on an outside wall simplifies the install a lot. Just so happened the easiest place to mount mine was a bit far from the kitchen so there's the issue of the time it takes the hot water to get there. It would be the same with a tanked heater in any event so that's not much difference there. I've known people who have the smaller units, several of them, one at each sink or whatever so the hot water is almost instant when you turn it on. That runs a bit more money of course, as you have to do so many installs and if running propane, account for piping it in and venting, electric units would be easier to install that way, but you'd still have to install several of them. Usually two or three for the average home, one for the bathroom(s) and one for the kitchen.

But as far as it supplying enough hot water, that's never been an issue, at least for the length of shower I normally take. I'm pretty sure it will just run until you run out of propane or water, whichever comes first, lol.