Hello world!

[Dweller_Benthos]

The problem is, at least here in the good ol' USA, is that large corporations actually run the place. They pay off and openly buy people in congress and even the president. Their lawyers write legislation, hand it to their paid off shills in congress and tell them to get it passed. You are not voting for that person, you are voting for their corporate sponsors. I've often said that congress persons should wear their corporate sponsor logos on their clothes like Nascar drivers do, that way we would know exactly who we are voting for.

[PZ]

You hit the nail on the head, D_B 

I think everyone knows the corruption in Washington is beyond reasonable. Just look at the Justices taking bribes, and no one (on either political side) is doing jack shite about it. I remember one congressman, Jeff Flake taking about all kinds of conspiracy nonsense when he was in office, but as soon as he was voted out, he spoke with as much sanity as any of us - all the conspiracy theories were gone from his speaking.

The problem is that both parties accept that corruption is the norm, so nothing is ever done about anything. We are at the mercy of those jackasses in Washington.

[Dweller_Benthos]

How "Lobbyist" got so accepted that it is an actual career path is beyond me. Well, it's simple really, money talks.

[PZ]

Indeed. One of my favorites when something does not make sense is "follow the money"

[BinnZ]

Thank you guys, for your ideas and suggestions. I agree with both of you that money is the problem. Well, the power that comes wih it and influences the holders of that money. I once said that money is like gravity; it tends to stick together. And the more has accumulated somewhere, the stronger this gravity is.
Imagine you are a country the size of Holland, fighting the same multinational companies; Musk & Co, Zückerbergs Meta, Amazon, Google, you name them. They play such an enormous role already in our society... our fucking governments are dependent on it. I think those companies are way too powerful to be held responsable by a country like the Netherlands. We simply lack the power to do so. Only international law could hold them responsible, like the UN, the EU, well and the USA of course.

Your remark PZ that history is repeating itself because people are too lazy to learn from history also cuts wood. It's true that it keeps happening like that, and we are missing opportunities to do things different. I personally think that the fast internet communication makes it even harder to learn from the past. Not only because computing power and the grip of big companies on that very computing power is blurring our sight, but also because people have so much distraction in the here-and-now that they have even less time and sense to read the past.

Having said that, our fortune lays indeed in the hands of the big money people, maybe even more than ever. No, actually, most likely not. Our world has changed, with internet and AI, our position and tendencies haven't.
It's just the same battle that has a different face.

So I will try to keep comparing current movements to past ones, and I will try to keep focussing on my own moral compass and try to influence my surroundings with it. So instead of the desire to keep distant from the stupid people who voted Wilders, I will try to be their horsefly, like Socrates was once for the ancient Greek. Let's hope they don't hang me for that. At least I can look myself in the eyes when I look in the mirror.

[BinnZ]

Now look at this! Just now I found this! ffs

I haven't read the article, just the headline. 4800 accounts banned, from Chinese origin. That's what Meta does. It sounds like an enormous amount, but it isn't! I believe there's thousands more. And what about the damage they have already done to American voters already! I'd say the only reasonable reaction would be to close down that fucking company. Or at least restrict access to it, like exclusively for real people living in allied countries. That sounds autoritarian too, but it's not, in my opinion. How can we allow that our public gets lied to constantly, without even knowing who's behind the lies?
I think it's time to restrict access to such massive online platforms through proper identification. And let that not be dealt with by those companies, but by governments. Now that we still have governments that, at least, appear to be working for our own good and are being controlled by democratic constitutions more than by the pockets of powerful wallet people.

Sounds extreme, yes, to limit access to knowledge on the internet by identification, but isn't that the only way to keep some grip on ourselves? Universities try to protect their knowledge by paywalls, something I don't like, but let's at least protect our knowledge by identity. Let's protext ourselves and our knowledge against bullshit.
Sites and services online that offer lesser powerful networks could still be kept openaccess for all, but we have to draw a line somewhere.

[PZ]

I think you're spot on about social media, which I regard is the foundation of the unrest in this country, and likely the world. Crazy factions are able to band together and recruit from all over the country so that a small faction can actually steer government for the entire city, state, or even country.

For example, in our county we have a small percentage of the political party in our county that thinks it is a good idea to keep closed primary elections (the other party has open primary). Closed primaries are elections in which only people registered for that party can vote. That stinks of voter suppression to me. Consequently, people have been switching parties just so they can vote in the primary.

Voter suppression has been going on far too long in the U.S. For anyone looking at current events, it is alarming how a party gets into power, and then tries to ensure that it remains in power forever. They do not care for the will of the people... it is only about the will of the party. politics is disgusting.

Something interesting going on in Sweden: Tesla workers are in a strike against the company. It is said that this is the largest fight in decades to save Sweden's union model. In response, many other unions are going on "sympathy" strikes. For example, dock workers will not load/unload Teslas, electricians who have refused to carry out service or repair at Tesla's shops,  and even charging stations and painters, who will not w0#k on Tesla cars. Other sympathy strikes include those by service and communication workers, who have stopped distributing mail and shipments to Tesla. I say "bravo" for the workers in Sweden. At least they are doing something to prevent what is already huge business from becoming even bigger.

On Twitter, poor, horribly abused Elon Musk is crying "This is insane!"  Poor baby... I feel so, so sorry for him.

I say "bravo for the Swedish workers". I wish we would see more of that here so the huge wealth gap between the corporations and the average person is somewhat mitigated. We already have monopolies like Amazon, the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, and no one is doing anything about it even though we technically have anti-trust laws still on the books.

[Dweller_Benthos]

Social media is a social disease. It should be treated that way, with a big dose of anti-biotics. When I first heard of both Facebook and Twitter, I thought they were a good idea but knew for sure they would end up causing more harm than good and create trouble. Sure it would be nice for a minority population (whatever they may be) to have an equal voice, but the potential for misuse is too great, and the ability to allow hateful and discriminatory material to spread and grow is enormous and harmful. They allow people to express their opinions, and what is said about opinions? They are like buttholes, and no one wants to hear from yours.

[PZ]

I couldn't agree more. The misinformation and outright lies on social media is largely the reason why the country is so divided these days.

Social media is nothing more than entertainment, and to use it otherwise is just asking for trouble.

[BinnZ]

Yea I heard about the Swedishs strikers! They do a great job! We have unions here, but they are getting less popular. We used to have 70% of workers be part of a union but now I believe it is only 35% or so. I quit 15 years ago. I felt like paying for the old chaps who save their own short-term future until they retire. The Swedish movement made me think of rejoining, especially now with Wilders as soon-to-be president. But I simply don't see the point,

Social media are a curse. I don't do any of them. I only signed up to LinkedIn because of the networking abilities, but it's becoming more and more like any other facebook-like site. Now I need it for w0#k, so I will stick to it, but I won't start posting about every little event that takes place around me.

[fragger]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around more lately, but you know, life stuff...

I've just been reading through all of your latest posts and I agree with everything you chaps have been saying.

Let me begin my two-cents' worth with social media, which I personally believe to be the scourge of our time (I've thought that for many years now, actually), the cons of which grossly outweigh the pros. The uppity clowns who administer it, like Musk and Zuckerberg, have gotten way too big for their britches and they were never very wise to begin with - not in ways which count. They're basically a pair of overgrown kids who got rich and influential at too early an age by being tech savvy but not socially savvy, and they're now presiding over a form of media which can greatly influence societal attitudes while lacking the kind of wisdom which only comes with age, life experience and the hard knocks of existence to moderate effectively. They would have no more idea of the plight and sentiments of the common flock of people than a newly-arrived visitor from Mars, yet they're directing a meduim which can affect the outcome of elections by swaying malleable bubble-dwellers who have little or no capacity for critical thought. Personally, I see that as nightmare fuel.

As for the rise of right-wing politics or conservatism or wannabe fascism or whatever you want to call it, it fortunately hasn't caught on here - not in a big way anyhow, and not for want of trying by the relative few who DO want it. In our last Federal election, one of the parties in the running was the "United Australia Party", a mob of right-wing conservative dingleberries led by a fat cat mining magnate named Clive Palmer, who is basically an Aussie Trump but with less face-spackle and more obnoxiousness. The UAP garnered only 4% of the vote in said election, which gives me hope. I think Aussies are too leery of the rich to fall for that kind of thing (mistrust of the well-to-do is in our DNA) but the fact that a party like that exists here at all is sobering. We even have a small contingent of Trump admirers here (one of whom is a mate of mine, with whom I deftly avoid discussion of the orange one should he come up), but by and large the guy is abhorred. I can only hope it stays that way.

Regarding the state of politics here in Oz, there isn't a lot to differentiate our major political parties - they're basically just two different mobs of politicians who present us with a choice of lesser devils whenever election time rolls around. The two big parties are the Labor Party and the Liberal Party (I hasten to stress that in Australia, the Liberal Party is actually the conservative party, as far as such things go here. When that party adopted the "Liberal" moniker, it didn't mean what it does today, particularly in the US). For a while I thought our current "Labor" Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, was a pretty good egg, but some of his actions of late have left a distinct whiff of methane in my nostrils. I voted for him last time but I may rethink the next ballot, unless he does something to redeem himself. I'm not holding my breath though.

It's a pickle. All we "common people" can do is vote for whoever we think will do the right thing - or for whoever we think will screw us over the least. While we CAN still vote, that is...

[PZ]

Good to see you again, fragger 

It is nice to read you gents perspectives. Discussion is always good, and it is very interesting to read about the political state in other countries from the actual people that live there rather than the lying media.

I hardly trust any media these days.

[BinnZ]

Interesting read Fragger, it reminds me of what is happening over here in the Netherlands. We have many political parties, unlike most common wealth countries and the states. Left and right is always a bit confusing... like Wilders' party: they are far-right when it comes to immigration, but their economics agenda is very left. However, their stance on important changes like environmental awareness, is super conservative, which means right in most books. So he is basically a mixed guy who makes one important statement for over 20 years already, and that's his allergy to immigrants, with muslims being the main target.
Somehow he manages, time after time, to draw the discussion, the political debate in the big TV shows, towards his xenophobia and he's a good debater. If you accept harrassment and bullying as debating qualities, that is... And while he keeps telling the same story he never has been part of a coalition. He's been part of the opposition for ages.
The common parties who do form governments, mostly the liberals (right in my book), have been doing nothing and have eroded the trust in government in general by numerous scandals and failures regarding progressive change. Money rules in their book; big companies need to feel welcome in our country, and the public is object of distrust, control and the poor part of them is being portrayed as people who can't take care of themselves (they fail to navigate through the highly individualized society).
Hense no one trusts them anymore. And instead of looking at the left, progressive side of the spectrum, they seem to have developed the same distrust for the leftist parties and look at Wilders instead. Likely because the leftist parties all want to deal with climate change and want to help immigrants.

So yeah, left and right isn't exactly working anymore, if it has ever worked. I personally think it's a way too simple form of drawing the political spectrum. I am still glad we have the multi-party system that allows coalition forming, but with the current state of distrust in politics it fails to address issues they way they should be addressed, and gives way for such populist cunts that promise to act well on a sentimental basis.

[fragger]

I hardly trust any media these days.

I hear you, PZ. Some outlets are less biased than others, one way or another, but I still take anything I read or see with a grain of salt. Some outlets I avoid like the plague, which is most of them.

@BinnZ, Cheers, buddy. I totally agree with what you said about "left and right" - it's just too simplistic a way to quantify something so nuanced and complex as a political spectrum. If I were to place myself on such a spectrum, I guess I'd say I'm a little left of centre, but for me, who I may support or vote for all comes down to who I feel shows a willingness to listen to their constituents' needs and concerns and act accordingly, with the matter of which party they belong to being basically irrelevant. I'm not a political tribalist and I don't hold with extremists, be they "left" or "right", for they exist at both ends of the spectrum. "Far left" types are just as distasteful to me as "far right" ones.

Governments in Western democracies are supposed to be "representative", and I take that meaning literally. They are supposed to do, or not do, what the majority of their people want, regardless of how they personally feel about it. There's a word for politicians who ignore their people's demands and wishes because they don't agree with them, or simply wish to pursue their own personal agendas over all other considerations, and that word is "dictator".

[PZ]

100% fragger 

The only real difference I see with politicians these days is the degree to which they lie.