JC2 and STEAM

[PZ]

Spoke as a true gaming addicted  ;D ;D ;D ;D

lol, you're absolutely correct!

The weather is bright, sunny, and relatively warm - unusual for this time of year  ;D

One distressing thing - I just read the installation instructions and they indicate that you must register with STEAM in order to play the game.  :(

I don't know what the issues with STEAM are, but I've read that some people are unhappy with it.  Anyone care to comment?

[Art Blade]

what...?! OH NO! :o :( >:(  :D :D :D

That can't be true, can it?! Aargh! ARGH! ARGH!

Now I am seriously considering not to buy it.

The subject has been spread across our site, but I believe this here is the most complex and complete series of posts. Read on there.

[PZ]

What exactly is STEAM anyway?  I'm not sure I understand why a DVD I have in my hands would require an account with STEAM.  I had thought that STEAM was for purchasing and downloading games rather than having the game in DVD format

[Art Blade]

First of all, STEAM doesn't make games. They sell them. So they are an online distributor. They provide patches, forums and all that stuff but don't do anything creative. They offer old games that won't sell any more in shops, and they offer games that are exclusive, to my knowledge it started with HalfLife2. Some games are available on physical media such as DVDs but are "bundled" with (or chained to, rather) STEAM. You need to register with them in order to get their ok so you can play. It is often said that it is a means against software piracy, but I say it is a means of relieving you of ownership and rights (ie reselling a STEAM version is impossible unless you sell the PC with it), and it means less production costs (no more CDs, no shipping...) and by that the loss of jobs and reduction of products sold in shops (no more CDs and game shops will disappear). So I think it generally only serves the industry and not the customer.

[Art Blade]

One more thing.

Actually, learning about the requirement of a f@#$ING steam account really PISSES ME OFF  >:( I was really angry with FC2 and their impertinent requirement of being registered and online connected to UBI while installing the game (it was mentioned on the CD package in a font size that I really could not read with bare eyes, I needed a magnifying glass, and of course I found out about it after I bought the game). Same with Assassins Creed 2, it churned my guts when I realised that you need to stay online as long as you play the game. At least it was the publisher, not some distributer, I needed to connect to. I refused to buy a few games which I would have bought otherwise, but they wanted to chain me to STEAM. I didn't allow them but had to live without the games. Now again a game with STEAM.

I have a feeling that I might abandon gaming for good if the industry goes on like that.

[PZ]

Well, the first thing that comes up when you start the installer is a STEAM installer.  Then, once it is finished, you're prompted with a message that you need to create a STEAM account.  Then you're prompted to enter the STEAM activation code.  When finished, you're given the message that the game is forever more tied to your STEAM account - at least it is not tied to the PC.  Only when you are finished registering and activating with STEAM does the actual installation begin.

I fully understand your position, and I'm afraid that this kind of leveraging will continue even more in the future.  Registering with Windows Live is similar in FO3, but someone developed a hack that inactivated the requirement for Windows Live.  Perhaps someone will do the same for JC2.

[Art Blade]

If I am not completely mistaken, the FO3 workaround did not prevent the online registration process but merely and thankfully remove the until then ever-present LIVE applet which kept popping up when pressing, say, "HOME" on the keyboard (often used on the PC console if you wanted to enter commands and then get to the start of the line, just like when composing a post here on the forum's boards).

I got carried away yesterday and I am still not happy about what I learned from you regarding yet another online registration, especially with STEAM.

My inner conflict is to decide whether I am standing in the way of the inevitable, castigating myself by depriving myself of games I'd like to play, which means I'd have to just accept and give in and play, or if I continue to express my belief and continue demanding freedom.

I already used a comparison between the online registration (especially online distribution of software) and cars, which did not catch on with everybody. But I believe it could be compared to purchasing a car that forces you to a) buy an insurance and b) leaving you no choice as to from which insurance company. It should not be like that.

Our fellow member fragger once presented us with a statement and a rhetorical question:

I know the idea is to combat piracy, but I'm not the criminal here, so why should I have to essentially pay for those that are?

Indeed the problem is that innocent, law-abiding customers such as myself (and presumably our members) have to cope with a lot of restrictions and I didn't even mention that no one knows what kind of data is being transferred during those online-registrations or, in case of AC2, during an entire session of gaming. The protection of our own personal data and security of our computers combined with the fact that we pay (at least once) for a product that doesn't w@&k. Unless someone from the outside decides so. Again fragger's statement springs to my mind:

I shouldn't have to be dependent on someone else's say-so as to whether I can use it or not.

If we were talking about cars, it would essentially mean that you can't start the engine unless you establish communication (like, over your mobile/cell phone) with either the manufacturer or the vendor) and a process of validation followed by an "ok, you may drive now". Ridiculous.

The simple fact that STEAM still exists and that more and more games come restricted in such ways basically tells me that everyone who objects those restrictive measures already lost the battle and will have to accept the consequences.

If it doesn't strike you, then let me ask you: If online activation, disk-less installation and all the likes didn't exist, would you seriously suggest the manufacturers finally start incorporating it? Like please, I want you to make me stay in contact with you, have you confirm that I may use what I legally bought, and only if you do will I use your product?

[JRD]

Well, I must admit I agree with Fiach here

I see your point Art, you find yourself forced to register after legally purchasing a game and it is probably due to an alleged "counter-piracy procedure" or a mean for developers earning more money by decreasing the cost of packaging and distribution.

But again, you know you are purchasing a license to play a game, rather than a game itself, only when getting a retail version you hold what you are paying for instead of "getting" a virtual product.

On the other side (my side of the ocean, to be precise), purchasing a game via STEAM is about the same price - provided you wait for a while or buy "old" games - as getting a game at an illegal street vendor. And considering you can get patches, DLC, support (ahem  ::) ) and, most important of all, you know what you are paying for, it is sure worth it.

I remember buying a pirate game many years ago, when I was a broke student at college, getting home, all excited to start a new gaming session only to find out I got a 3rd class porn movie infested with viruses that forced me to format my HD  :'(

Yes, I admit I bought pirate games a few times in the past, before having STEAM... it was like 10-15 times cheaper than an original, which only kids from rich families could buy. And the reason for that outrageous price is not a game developing company making money but rather our stupid government and their overwhelming import taxes.

Actually, if a developing company makes a nice game, they should make money out of it... that's "fair" in the western world we all live in!! So, if I can buy a legal game, a good product, for a fair price via STEAM, you bet I will, yes sir!!  :-X

One other aspect I love at STEAM is that I don't need a CD and I know it's one of your main complaints regarding their system. But for me it's great that I know I can install any game I bought at STEAM wherever I am at any time withou carrying CDs or DVD swith me. Also, I know in a few years I will still be able to install a game at my PC/laptop, which wasn't the case always with my CDs/DVDs... I moved so many times in my life and I lived in places so humid and moist that I lost count of how many CDs and DVDs and whatnot I found corrupted or damaged due to weather or handling.

All my games are safe in the virtual world and will remain like that untill STEAM goes bankruptcy or the whole net is shut down by SKYNET (in that case I'll have worst problems to consider  ;D ;D ;D )

But back on topic... I don't see why you should be forced to have a STEAM account, but if you do it and then play the game, that's ok... they are hooking you to their system in the end (and I agree that being forced to that is annoying), but hey, for me it is not such a bad system... they instantly download patches, update your game and they have great weekend deals, bundles, old games only sold online and the great balck friday, when I got my onlinve FC2 version with Fortune's pack for US$ 5 and STALKER SoC and CS for US$ 7  8)

To sum it up, STEAM might be seen as an evil industry or a path to make gaming more accessible, depending on which side of the ocean or hemisphere you are. Brazilian government cannot tax what I buy online from overseas sellers, so STEAM is making me a great service by making all those games available via net. If I have to register with them first, for me it's OK. I did it and never regret it so far  ;)

[PZ]

I see both of your points , and I agree with each.  I think it unfair to force us to register on STEAM, and at first I was like you, Art - so annoyed I was instantly disappointed in the company.  However, because I do not want to deprive myself of this wonderful game, I decided to go ahead with the installation anyway, and it was not too bad.  STEAM installs an applet which starts your game, but there are many other features as well - I'll check them out because JRD's comments have me intrigued, and it looks like a simple system.

On a side not, I'm playing on the PC and like with the other games, it is so much easier to aim, but more difficult to drive.

[Art Blade]

PZ, I am likely to choose the between the blue and the red pill, in favour of gaming.

JRD, I see why you and people in your position (software basically unavailable made available) have every right to back up STEAM.

People in fragger's and IamVince's position (limited internet, extra payment per downloaded (mega-)byte) however would certainly prefer a solid medium such as a DVD to anything else. Just to remember the problems that may occur:

I bought this last week...spent 2 days down loading it.They sent me the wrong links ,its in Itlain.I get a email saying sorry here's the fix and the correct links.Spend the next 2 days installing the fix and transferring to steam.Try to to play it and the writing is all messed up.
I'm trying to download the correct links now(another 2 days)
My first dealings with steam...they suck

and

I bought it online. It took:

8 hours to DL the main game;
4 hours to DL Episode One;
6 hours to DL Episode Two;
6 hours to DL Portal;

which used up a s**tload of my Internet DL allocation (I'm on Prepaid Wireless Broadband as I can't get DSL where I am)

Why can't they just offer additional services such as STEAM but generally stick to what is common in other trades (physical goods)?

By the way, all that activation nonsense started with windows XP (or was it w95/98 even?) when Microsoft decided it needed an activation either by phone (what I did) or over the internet.

[fragger]

Please allow me to weigh in on this very briefly (I keep trying, but I'm not quick enough on the draw ;D)

Like PZ, I can see both sides of the argument, JRD and Art, you both make valid points. It's a knotty thing, and I guess it comes down to personal situations and, dare I say, how trusting you are. I guess what bothers me the most about the whole online rego/installation thing is that I don't know who's on the other end, or what they may possibly glean from me having opened my cyber-fly, so to speak.

I long for the days where you typed in the rego code from the jewel case and away you went. Call me hopelessly nostalgic ;D

Okay, that's it.

Btw PZ, hope you have bags of fun with the game :)

[Art Blade]

hehe fragger, I know you spent all the time composing a reply even before JRD submitted, then PZ, now me... you must have been close to hammer the screen and discard most of your initial post  ;D

[fragger]

 ;D ;D Kept gettting the red line of death

[Art Blade]

this forum is alive  ;D

[JRD]

Agree with those who have limited acces to net!

There should be an alternative. Also agree that STEAM should be an option, not a requirement. If you expect to have a system spread worldwide requiring you to use STEAM, give us at least a few transitional years making it an option and listening to the community!

I know I do lots of online shopping: I started with books, then moved to vintage football shirts (unavailable in the general market or available for high prices) and now I buy loads of stuff online: concert tickets (there's no place near my home/w@&k to purchase them, so I pay the extra fare  :-\ ), lenses for my camera, quarterly bus passes, air tickets, games... heck I even buy groceries and have them delivered at my front door at a handy time slot  8)

I save lots of time doing so and am able to search for better offers of what I'm looking for. Never had any trouble with credit cards - insert "thanks god" winky here - and it feels great to have services for you available online.

[PZ]

One good thing is that my Firefox is loaded with all kinds of security measures, and I use Comodo firewall which requires me to scrutinize every packet of information that passes to and fro my computer.  Thankfully the STEAM install did not trigger any of the usual red flags of data mining.

As to Internet purchasing, you might investigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set.  For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59.  That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.

[PZ]

Btw PZ, hope you have bags of fun with the game :)

Thanks, fragger - the game is so fun that I even forgot my annoyance with the whole STEAM thing  ;)

[Art Blade]

investigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set.  For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59.  That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.

America is one or two steps ahead of us, my bank hadn't even heard of that. I told them, "now that you have heard of it, you might want to bring it up in your next meeting and maybe you'll be ahead of your competitors" :D But they didn't really seem to understand the principles and advantages of it  :D

Heh, I've just thought that they take the concept of "customer care" to a whole new level: Customers care, they don't.  :P

[JRD]

investigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set.  For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59.  That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.

America is one or two steps ahead of us, my bank hadn't even heard of that. I told them, "now that you have heard of it, you might want to bring it up in your next meeting and maybe you'll be ahead of your competitors" :D But they didn't really seem to understand the principles and advantages of it  :D

Heh, I've just thought that they take the concept of "customer care" to a whole new level: Customers care, they don't.  :P

I thought about checking it with my manager, but after Art's reply maybe I think I won't even bother... if they don't do it in Germany, let alone Brazil... the guy would laugh his a$$ out!!!  :-\

[Art Blade]

go ahead, just ask them. Who knows, sometimes they're good for a surprise :)

Actually, I might have to check different banks here. If mine doesn't know it (or at least tell me that they don't), doesn't mean that none does.

[PZ]

Indeed - some of the banks here have that benefit and others do not so you never know.  ;)

[PZ]

Back on topic, I discovered that you can turn off automatic game updates in STEAM, which is something that is not possible in other games.

This morning I downloaded the free vehicle on the PS3 that spaceboy mentioned in another thread - I first had to do a PS3 update before it would let me start, then I had to sign into the PlayStation network to gain access to the DLC.

When I started the PC version today, I noticed that the DLC vehicle had already been installed because of the update that I had allowed.  Maybe STEAM is not so bad after all - we'll see, I guess.

[Art Blade]

Oh, there are nice features like what you described, I never said anything against those.

But there are negative features you may not have encountered and which I haven't mentioned, either. One of them is the beloved "rego code from the jewel case." How so? Well, sometimes games offer a multiplayer feature that requires you to register with the manufacturer and he wants that rego code "from the CD" which, oh dear, you never had when you purchased the game exclusively from STEAM (downloaded installation)...

[JRD]

Apart for weekend deals, that can be as good as 50% off on recent titles or even a great discount like in Call of Pripyat, STEAM is kind of a game manager.

You see what games you own and have installed and can change some preferences via their interface. Right click on agame at your My Games tab and check it (you already did it). Also, there's a Tools tab where you can access other features of a game. Mostly is for MP servers and all, but I have access to my map editor on OFP2, benchmark tools at FC2 and more.

They are available at the games interface too, of course, but to manage them from a single interface is cool.

IMPORTANT TIP

If you go to your bottom bar, there is a Settings icon. Click on it and go to In-game. Disable that option as it can pop in messages into your game from the online community.

When I installed Far Cry 1 I had a message from that In-Game feature asking me to join friends and play online. That message was right on top of my energy/shield/ammo bar and I couldn't see it  :D

Anyway, it's a user friendly interface.  :-X

@ Art... you can have it from STEAM too. Right click at a game and you get a View game CD key option  ;)

[PZ]

Thanks for the information, guys - it is nice to have this dialog so that people can understand what they are in for. 

I turned off the "in game" feature as well as the automatic game updates, and everything seems to be working fine so far  :-X

By the way, I saw Hitman Blood Money for $9.99 on STEAM.  :)