about RAID

[Stryker7]

nice :) I see you found out how uploading and embedding pics works :-X

No problem at all, but have a question since you are here.

Take a look at the pictures here,

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_p6x58d-e_review/2

the very bottom on the left and see if that is where your SATA ports are. In the row just above and to the right, you see 2 more SATA ports at the bottom of the MB, and I think there are 2 on the backport for eSATA.

[Art Blade]

I opened the case and used a flashlight to actually see something. I found one imprint on the mobo at the back reading eSATA but it doesn't look like they actually connected a socket to that, the back features (next to audio/video/lan) a lot of USB ports the sockets of which I can see on the mobo. Then I followed flat red cables from the HD and DVD which are connected on the top and front side of the mobo, I could read SATA there (numbered, 7 and 8 ). There is one more free socket, I think #5. I couldn't see more than four sockets, so I believe they deprived me of four sockets. Looks like the board features everything the original ASUS board does, but my OEM version just didn't make use of all options.

[Stryker7]

I opened the case and used a flashlight to actually see something. I found one imprint on the mobo at the back reading eSATA but it doesn't look like they actually connected a socket to that, the back features (next to audio/video/lan) a lot of USB ports the sockets of which I can see on the mobo. Then I followed flat red cables from the HD and DVD which are connected on the top and front side of the mobo, I could read SATA there (numbered, 7 and 8 ). There is one more free socket, I think #5. I couldn't see more than four sockets, so I believe they deprived me of four sockets. Looks like the board features everything the original ASUS board does, but my OEM version just didn't make use of all options.

The best place for definitive info would be the user manual, or the website with info from your MB. I visited the site, in German, but when I tried to download the manual, it wanted a user name and password. I dont own any of their products, and dont know how to read to see what info they want to register for their site.

The fact that you were getting the RAID error message on boot up, means that there is more there.

But, if you have even one additional SATA port, you can add another HDD, And since the HDD you have works, the BIOS settings should be setup so that it would not need to enter the BIOS. That may not be the case, but I am willing to bet that I am right.

[Art Blade]

I may be wrong, but I don't recall having had a printed manual (apart from a "connect to power, switch on" kind of quick start guide). I don't see the need to give any bloody site my data and register with god-knows-what sorts of sites, so I won't do that. Either I figure it out myself (usually possible) or I don't.

I saw the HD in my rig is in a place where another HD will fit, so all I need is another HD, cables to connect the 2nd HD to the sata port and cables for the PSU. I might find all three in one of my older rigs :) Well, the power cable should be in my current rig already.

[Stryker7]

I may be wrong, but I don't recall having had a printed manual (apart from a "connect to power, switch on" kind of quick start guide). I don't see the need to give any bloody site my data and register with god-knows-what sorts of sites, so I won't do that. Either I figure it out myself (usually possible) or I don't.

I feel the same way. Like "Cereal Killer" said in the movie "Hackers" " you can sit at home, and do like absolutely nothing and and your name goes through like seventeen computers a day. 1984, yeah right man, that's a typo. Orwell's here and now, he's living large. We have no names, man, no names. We are nameless."

I saw the HD in my rig is in a place where another HD will fit, so all I need is another HD, cables to connect the 2nd HD to the sata port and cables for the PSU. I might find all three in one of my older rigs :) Well, the power cable should be in my current rig already.

You system should have come with a little bag, that has extra SATA cables, or when you buy a new drive they are included, or you might have one laying around, OR, they cost about $2.00 US.

Your PSU should already have extra SATA connectors, if not you can buy adapters and "Y" splitters for about the same.

I know that this seems alot of trouble, but I will bet you that you will see a real improvement in performance, and your Raptor will last a lot longer.

[Art Blade]

thanks for your support :) I expanded previous PCs by adding HDs and exchanging RAM, DVD players, vid- sound- and LAN cards, and stuff like that. The only thing I don't want to mess about with is modern CPUs with smearing that thermal paste around and end up breaking or frying it. Anything else is alright with me.

By the way, I don't have a Raptor (yet) :) It's old dinosaur PZ with matching HDs  ;D

[Art Blade]

I recently checked my bios, there are two entries regarding RAID adapters and some extra RAID adapter and stuff like that, so there are parts on my mobo for that. That is not yet important, just a "FYI". What I would like to know however is:

• can I just enable "RAID0" and then add a used HD that already contains stuff? (else: what to do in which order)
• what do I have to avoid if I don't want my system to croak (see above)?
• I have a dual boot with 32bit XP and Win7. Will both make use of the RAID?

Cheers :)

[Stryker7]

I recently checked my bios, there are two entries regarding RAID adapters and some extra RAID adapter and stuff like that, so there are parts on my mobo for that. That is not yet important, just a "FYI". What I would like to know however is:

• can I just enable "RAID0" and then add a used HD that already contains stuff? (else: what to do in which order)
• what do I have to avoid if I don't want my system to croak (see above)?
• I have a dual boot with 32bit XP and Win7. Will both make use of the RAID?

Cheers :)

First off, I am talking generically here, and the relating the experiences that I have had setting up and using arrays on a few different RAID Array controllers I have owned and used. Keeping that in mind, here is my attempt to answer your questions.

With some chipsets, you can enable some RAID features without building an array. You may already be using some of the features. But you said "two entries regarding RAID adapters"

Is that 2 options, or entries for 2 different RAID adapters ?

If you have 2 different adapters, you have more options, and more info is neeeded. Checking to see which of yours are more stable, faster, etc ....

BWOE, in my effort to do my homework before installing Win7, just yesturday I ran Everst Ultimate. It saw my 2 different RAID controllers. When it reported on the Nvidia 570 SLI, it showed 8 ports, that weird, my MB only has 6 connectors. The JMicron controller, it showed 8 ports, WTH, I only have 2 ports, one internal and one eSATA port on the back of the MB. A friend of mine, told me that it is just an educated guess, but suggested, that both controllers in fact internally have 8 ports, but the MB, decided to only make use of 6 and 2 respecitively. And some MBs using the same chips, may enable and configure them differently.

I can come up with a better response once I know which adapters you have. The original MB that yours is apparently based on, has 2 adapters. And there can be MAJOR differences under the aforementioned criteria.

Now to answer your 3 specific questions.

1)        a)  like I said, you can enable the RAID, for some of its features, without creating an Array. Once you enable the RAID, your BIOS should have several new options that are only shown once you have enabled the RAID features. Like previously stated, you can enable RAID functions, without creating an Array. Things like hotplugging, for use in eSata. That is why your MB, has SATA ports on the back, for hooking up eSATA (external SATA devices) drives, SAS, and NAS. All of which use the SATA protocol to communicate with the eSATA devices.(This is actually a whole lot like USB in how it works)

And futher, you may notice new screens on bootup (your previous boot up error message, was probably on one of these screens. Enabling the RAID, enables BIOS features of the RAID chipset. (This depends on the chipset, and may not actually be a BIOS. but BIOS type features ) That is because the RAID, and any Array, needs configuration info, before the OS starts it's boot process. once you enable RAID, you will then need to configure the RAID featuers, one of which will be to build an Array. And your decisions need to be made about the Array before you get to this screen. The need to research.

    b) You can use any SATA HDD. If you do, then when you enable the RAID in the BIOS, one of which is to create the Array, it will ask you several more questions. if you choose to create the Array, it should present several more options (questions)

Oh and BTW, if you do have 2 different RAID controllers, each one may have their own configuration screen and may vary greatly. I can not speak specifically about your BIOS, but .....

In mine, It will list all the drives. (BE VERY CAREFULL at this point.) it ask, which drives I want to add to the array. It should ask for confirmation. It should also ask what cluster size, etc ....   But at some point, if you tell the chipset to add a particular drive to the array, once it is added to the Array, all the DATA on it is GONE. So DO NOT ADD a HDD that has any data you want to keep.

The drives that I do not add to the array, will still get to take advantage of hotplugging, NCQ, and some other options.

2)  In this specific situation, If you want a RAID0, I would not put ANYTHING on that drive (array), that you can not afford to lose. You can make off array backups of your data, but there is no redundancy to a  RAID0.

Is the electrical power grid in your area stable ? The reason I ask, is because the single best possibility of losing an array, is a crash or unusual shutdown, and if  due to power-failure, then a good UPS is a really good investment.

But other loosing data on an the array, the fact that you run an array should have no real adverse effects on your PC. Your HDDs will be operating simultaneously, so you might have an issues in that regard, but, if adding an array with 2 drives causes problems for that reason, your PSU is suspect already.

3) Not trying to dodge the question, and the short answer is yes, both should support it from the get go. But you would have to check to make sure that the RAID controllers are both suppoted in both OSs.

But again, at boot, the RAID is configured, basically telling the controller, to use both drives and presents it to the OS, thru its drivers, so that they see only one drive. Then the drive (array) has a filesystem created. From that point onward, the use of the array should be transparent for all but monitoring for the condition of the array. Or rebuilding with other sorts of redundant arrays.

It would really help to have a manual from your manufacturer. When I visited it would allow access, by the serial number, since I dont have one I could not get in. They also allow access by a specific model number, if you would provide me with that, I could join using a temp email address and get a copy of the manual(s). Sorry, I can only read english, and very little spanish, so it would have to be an english manual.

But I do want to say, that it is really not that difficult. You (We all ) just need to try to understand it a little more, before jumping off into it. And I am willing to help more. I am willing to help, I just need a little more info to REALLY help better.

[Art Blade]

Thanks a lot, I'll try to get more info.

your question: it was two raid adapters, like "one" and "extra" (additional).

I plan a RAID0, so the new 2nd drive should be empty. The one already in use should not be affected if I got it right, right? ;D good.. so I'll get a 2nd sata HD which is empty. What I really don't want is to find out is that my PC lost the drive (data) that contains XP and Win7 (and games etc).

[Stryker7]

Thanks a lot, I'll try to get more info.

your question: it was two raid adapters, like "one" and "extra" (additional).

I plan a RAID0, so the new 2nd drive should be empty. The one already in use should not be affected if I got it right, right? ;D good..

No, if you want to save the partition/ drives/ data, you will need to back it up to somewhere.

When you enable the RAID, and setup the Array, ALL of the data on all disk (members of the raid ) will be lost.

so I'll get a 2nd sata HD which is empty. What I really don't want is to find out is that my PC lost the drive (data) that contains XP and Win7 (and games etc).

Now real quick, I would not suggest that you try to run your OS from a RAID Array at first. Set it up to run programs and games. You would need a 3rd disk to run your OS from.

RAID0 is not redundant at all. It is a stiped array, writing the first fragment of a file to disk 1, 2nd fragment to disk 2, 3rd fragment to disk 1, 4th fragment to disk 2, etc etc .....

Until that one file is moved copied whatever. But the point is, that half of every file is on one drive, the other half is on the other disk. Lose one disk, ALL the DATA is gone.

I am sorry and apologize for any confusion.

[Art Blade]

no need to worry mate  :) You helped to understand it!

So I actually won't create a RAID0 any time soon knowing that my current HD would be lost and that I'd need to set up a 2-disk RAID0 first (again a new OS to be set up) and only then add a HD with data on it.

I will remember this however, my next PC is most likely to become a RAID0 system  :-X

[Stryker7]

no need to worry mate  :) You helped to understand it!

So I actually won't create a RAID0 any time soon knowing that my current HD would be lost and that I'd need to set up a 2-disk RAID0 first (again a new OS to be set up) and only then add a HD with data on it.

I will remember this however, my next PC is most likely to become a RAID0 system  :-X

I was hoping you would see my post, before running out, adding a drive, setting the RAID, that would have had you losing everything  :'( and then cussing at me long distance. >:(

You scared the hell out of me  >:D

[mandru]

Wow, this thread has gone so far over my head that I feel like I should be wearing a diving helmet and standard diving dress just to wade through it.  ???

[Art Blade]

lol mandru :) There's one simple word for you to cope with all that: "Shop." (rather than "try to build it yourself")  ;) But I believe you could get your head around it if you wanted to get a RAID system up and running, I think I'll give it a try next time I get a new PC. Right now I don't want to hose a system with 1TB HD that hosts two OSs and truckloads of data.

[Stryker7]

lol mandru :) There's one simple word for you to cope with all that: "Shop." (rather than "try to build it yourself")  ;) But I believe you could get your head around it if you wanted to get a RAID system up and running, I think I'll give it a try next time I get a new PC. Right now I don't want to hose a system with 1TB HD that hosts two OSs and truckloads of data.

Say there Art.

After I logged off this morning, actually while I was falling asleed this morning ( I stay up at night and sleed during the day) I realized that "I" and possibly you, had gotten 2 different subjects merged and confusion insued.

You should not attempt to add another drive by itself and create a RAID Array. That could and probably would hose your system.

But we had also discussed adding a second drive, so that you (or anyone else) could have a swap partition on a different drive than your OS. That by itself would increase performance all by itself.

Now buying a drive just for that purpose, is not a too expensive proposition, but if you are needing a little more storage room, or need a partition for backups, then it becomes a much better idea.

If you buy a second drive, create a 5 or 6 gig space at the very front, and use it solely for your pagefile (aka swap) partition, you will get some additional performance without having to create a RAID.

I think it is time for me to start working on Blog page about doing this and things. That way I can just link to the info, instead of doing it all in the forums.

[Art Blade]

you got that right, about blending two subjects in our minds, but still your answers help anyone (including myself) to get that straight.

About your idea, you could create a journal with tech infos, and a seperate discussion topic. I recently added (again) "my journals" to my signature, click that to see what I mean. Other members such as PZ and mmosu also have a clickable link in their signature, you might want to check them as well to get an idea of what is possible.  :)

[PZ]

...But we had also discussed adding a second drive, so that you (or anyone else) could have a swap partition on a different drive than your OS. That by itself would increase performance all by itself.

...I think it is time for me to start working on Blog page about doing this and things. That way I can just link to the info, instead of doing it all in the forums.

I did just that with an old WD drive I had lying around and now the pagefile is on the second drive.  The performance seems to have improved significantly.

I think it's a great idea to do a blog or wiki entry detailing how to do these things - these topics sometimes become buried among thousands of posts after a while and lose their exposure.  A blog or wili makes it easy to always fine.

[Art Blade]

A "wili" is a good idea :)

Seriously, the wiki  is probably the best idea because other people can add information (knowledge) as well as hyperlink certain expressions leading to detailed articles etc and enhance an article even more, as well as correcting typos etc.  :-X

[PZ]

oops!  ^+-+

[Stryker7]

A "wili" is a good idea :)

Seriously, the wiki  is probably the best idea because other people can add information (knowledge) as well as hyperlink certain expressions leading to detailed articles etc and enhance an article even more, as well as correcting typos etc.  :-X

That was a good one, and I got as big a kick out of it as PZ did,  :)

Typos, they make me feel like Archie Bunker, but I do it quite often. I type pretty fast, about 90 wpm, and sometimes my brain is still working faster than I can type.

Wiki sounds good to me too.

I will get started on it next couple of days.

[Stryker7]

...But we had also discussed adding a second drive, so that you (or anyone else) could have a swap partition on a different drive than your OS. That by itself would increase performance all by itself.

...I think it is time for me to start working on Blog page about doing this and things. That way I can just link to the info, instead of doing it all in the forums.

I did just that with an old WD drive I had lying around and now the pagefile is on the second drive.  The performance seems to have improved significantly.

I think it's a great idea to do a blog or wiki entry detailing how to do these things - these topics sometimes become buried among thousands of posts after a while and lose their exposure.  A blog or wili makes it easy to always fine.

Glad to hear that it worked out. If your computer has to use a swap (pagefile) for virtual memory, you will get a boost, and it will save major wear and tear on your good drive too.

Reading the Wiki how to thread now.

[PZ]

...Reading the Wiki how to thread now.

Cool - one tip I can offer is that if you see formatting on another wiki page that you like, you can open it in edit view and copy/paste into a new page, then edit to fit your content.