Possible alternative for smoking

[mmosu]

Great story JRD  :-X

Back slap!!!!

[mandru]

Thanks for the encouragement JRD, I appreciate it.

My package with the Safecig arrived five days ago and I have been using the product towards what I feel is favorable effect.  I would have posted on this sooner but I was going to wait until after a week of using the product before coming up with a summary of my first impressions of it however JRD put so much effort into his post I didn't want to let go by without acknowledging it.   :)

Normally in this period of time I would have consumed roughly six and a half or possibly seven packs of cigarettes and that has been slashed down to not quite three at this point.

The refill cartridges for the product are supposed to be the equivalent of a pack but I find that they are lasting me two full days so at least for the time being I'm not hitting the Safecig as hard as I do normal smokes.  I find this to be a promising condition as it backs up my thoughts on breaking away from my emotional habit of seeing stepping out for a smoke in units of whole cigarettes.  Instead of consuming a whole cigarette I'm addressing need on my terms instead of measuring in standard units of "1 cigarette" at a time as metered out by the Marlboro company (the reds, yes that's been my brand too since I was 12 or 13 and now approaching 50 years).

JRD your comments on becoming aware of the smells of smoking as you had quit but your wife continued for a while are actually relevant to an effect of the reduced amount of tobacco consumption I'm experiencing.

Yesterday I only used 5 cigarettes and only one of those smoked after 12 noon, it being the one I smoked right before going to bed.  This morning when I woke up I had a really nasty case of skank mouth (the feeling that the 'Athenian Stables' that Hercules' had to clean in a single day as one of his seven trials from mythology had been relocated to my mouth sometime in the middle of the night.  If you've never encountered that be very thankful.  As a full blown smoker your taste buds are so beaten down by continual contact that you get used to the taste of that in your mouth but my reduced consumption is allowing that to reappear.

The science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein in his book Revolt in the Year 2100 touched on the issue of skank mouth in one passage. There was the main character in the story who had lived under a repressive religious regime until adulthood with a life completely free from tobacco or alcohol.  After the revolt mentioned in the title the regime fell and due to a resulting riotous party with lots of tobacco and booze that spontaneously erupted carrying him along in the tide he not only couldn't remember the previous evening when he woke up in his cot in the men's communal barracks he'd wondered what had been living in his mouth and was afraid he'd contracted a horrible disease.

The friend and mentor character in the story had laughed and told him he was going to be OK and added the sage comment "Adopting new vices require commitment and regular practice.  You'll get used to it in no time."

Only I'm trying to w%&k in the opposite direction now.   ???

I am finding this product to be acceptable as a replacement (with an eye towards tapering off completely eventually  :-X) though it is taking me a bit to w%&k out equivalency levels between the product and cigarettes which I think sometimes causes me to get behind the curve on my blood nicotine level giving me the excuse to use a cigarette to reset to my comfortable base level.  But even that type of slip is still at significant reduction of the number of cigarettes I'm using.

The flavor is less of a shock than say switching from a full flavor tobacco to a menthol.  The vapor which is heated as it is created has an accurate mouth feel and makes a slight sizzling sound as it's flashed over that is very like tobacco burning in a cigarette.  That's helpful to the over all feel of the product by allowing for the sense of hearing to be involved also.  If the sizzle is missing when you puff it's an instant tip off that your battery has gone flat or that you should check your refill cartridge.

The only down sides I've encountered is that sometimes the fluid in the refill cartridge will not vaporize completely or if it does it can condense on the end of the ceramic mouthpiece but never in large amounts and it's easily wiped away or even more easily ignored.  That accumulated condensate moisture is far less than experienced with some pipe tobaccos I've encountered back when I used to smoke pipe.

There is also the condition of remembering to keep the batteries freshly topped off and loaded in my 'to-go' case ready to rotate out as needed which occurs about once a day and to also carry a sealed replacement refill cartridge when I go out but then that is not a whole more effort than remembering to bring smokes and a good lighter normally is.

So far I'm pretty happy with my purchase.

[JRD]

The hardest part in developing the strong will to quit is that you think you are giving up a pleasure, something that can`t be replaced. Life won`t be as good if you have something you really enjoy taken away, right? That`s what I found out during my quitting process.

Turns out I found other pleasures in not smoking such as feeling my lungs clean, breathing better, sleeping better, doing cardio sports (I could barely run to cross the street and would reach the other side panting and sweating  :D )... I found more pleasure in food and drinks. Everything around me smells better.

There are so much more beyond smoking I can never actually put it in words... It`s something you have to find out for yourself, mate!

Once you are rid of the addiction you`ll look behind and think "Man, what was I thinking?"  ????

I know some people that managed to reduce the amount of cigarettes they smoke so much that tey can smoke maybe one or two per week  ???  as in special occasions, maybe after a real good meal having a tasty coffee or in a great party or whatever... I wish I could be like one of these guys and still be able to smoke a cig every once in a while, but I`m not. Either I`m smoking heavily or not at all, so I chose not at all.

[JRD]

I just remember a film by Woody Allen, called Sleeper (1973)

He wakes up in the future from a cryostasis sleep to find an amusing world. Soon he finds out that some concepts we have in the XX century are absolutely wrong. Eat red meat is now healthy and when he starts to complain about a cough he is given cigarettes to smoke, after all it`s a good exercise to his lungs.

He then goes "So what have we been doing all this time? Depriving ourselves from what`s actually good for us? Damn vegetarians"   ^+-+

[mandru]

 ^+-+

Yeah I remember that scene in Sleeper.   :-X

[fragger]

This is totally unrelated to smoking, but I seem to remember a scene in Sleeper when Woody finds a Volkswagen that's several centuries old - and it starts first go :-D

[JRD]

 ^+-+

Yeah, I remember that scene as well...  :-X

[Binnatics]

I only came up today reading this topic, I should have done it from the beginning and wish I did. Anyway, I'm a part of it now, and that's a good thing  :)
One step ahead to a non-smoking life.

I also have the desire to quit smoking and I agree with and recognize myself and my addiction in every word so far.

A few years ago I also tried to quit: I had a seminar for w%&k about addiction. I learned about the neurologic processes in the brain (and in the rest of the body) and the way addictive substances influence these neurotransmitters. An interesting side-effect in that matter is that an addiction also enlarges the quantity of receptors for the substance taken due to the addiction. If you start smoking for example, you will have, let's say, 5 receptors who respond to nicotine per neurotransmitting head (I don't know the exact word for that but it's the part that recieves the substances transported by the neurosystem). Due to getting addicted to smoking, you will overload yourself with nicotine and thus your body will create more of those receptors. You'll get a lot more of these then the five you'd normally have. Once you stop smoking, there will not only be 5 receptors screaming for nicotine per head, there will be a lot more. Once you manage to control the need and persevere in quiting, these receptors will go to sleep. But they will never disappear. They will remain sleeping until you decide to take 'just one sigarette at a nice party'. Then they will wake up and scream alltogether for more. You're back where you started.  :D
That why JRD is right about the quote that he will never smoke 'just one' anymore, because he will go all the way or nothing at all:

I know some people that managed to reduce the amount of cigarettes they smoke so much that tey can smoke maybe one or two per week  ???  as in special occasions, maybe after a real good meal having a tasty coffee or in a great party or whatever... I wish I could be like one of these guys and still be able to smoke a cig every once in a while, but I`m not. Either I`m smoking heavily or not at all, so I chose not at all.

I know that feeling of jealousy towards people who manage to just smoke 'when they feel so'. I believe they can, they seem to just not get affected so much to the addiction. These people are intersting case-study objects actually  >:D
The feeling of never being able to smoke ever again knocked me down during my last try. I kept fighting for 3 months and then I broke. Started smoking again. Within days I was back to my usual 20 sigs a day.

That brings me to another interesting point: It's indeed the physiology of our body that gets messed up when developing an addiction. It won't only communicate with the corresponding receptors, it will also influence a lot of other processes in our body. There has been an interesting case-study towards physiological processes and addiction. It's called "The Green Cage".
It was an experiment where they made a mouse get addicted to heroin. They held the mouse in a white cage, and everyday the mouse was brought to another cage through a small walkway. That cage was green. In that green cage, he allways recieved a small dose of heroin. First a very poor dose. Heroin is quite strong and can easily kill a small animal like a mouse. But, easily they increased the daily dose of heroin and the mouse developed a certain tolerance: His body got used to bigger amounts of heroin and it didn't affect him that much anymore. They made a real junkie out of that mouse.
After a while, they changed the schedule: The mouse was not brought to the greene cage before he got his dose, he recieved his regular dose directly in the white cage. The mouse took it, stumbled a bit, and died due to the effects of an overdose.
This experiment shows how our body gets influenced not only in the head by the drug: The whole body changes. The mouse knew that he would get his shot when they brought him to his green cage. His body knew and started preparing itself for the poisonous dose. When he entered the green cage his body allready was prepared for what was coming and he servived the deadly poison. When in the white cage his body was exposed to the same dose of poison unprepared, he died instantly.

This 'preparing for a dose of drugs' is seen by all addicted people as well. Junkies can stay clean easily when in prison and will scream out that they will never touch the drug again. One day before they get released they start to get nervous. They sweat, sometimes their hands shake, they look around like a wild animal... they know, and most of all their body knows, that they will be using drugs again very soon. Their body prepares itself allready for the dose. Our body is in much ways a sort of balance: If we use drugs the equilibrium is gone. The balance hoof to the left. The body wants to restore the balance and will add other substances to the right. Imagine the junkie: His body knows that he will get to his green cage (the streets, his friends, under the bridge etc.) and will produce the antidose that needs to be put to the right of the balance; in order to restore the balance there is a great need for the drug. The junkie will feel that: shaking, nerves, sweating, maybe even rithmdisorders in his hart, who knows what more. He's in desperate need of a fix.

Same thing happens to an alcoholic. He quit drinking and visits a bar with his friends. He likes a beer or 2, and says to himself; I'll just drink one. His body knows what will come next normally after that one beer. So it will prepare for the huge dose he used to consume. Than another beer is irresitable for the drinker and he will get all the way.

The nasty thing of smoking addiction is that the whole damn world is full of green cages for us smokers. We smoke at w%&k, before and after diner, in the garden, on the sofa with friends, in bars, on holiday, well, it's tougher to imagine a place where we will NOT smoke. So the whole world is like a green cage to us. Plus the world is full of other smokers and smoking propaganda. These are extra stimulances to the craving for a sigarette. I bet we normally light up a sig when seeing others smoke, or when confronted with the famous marlboroman.
Just therefore it's a good thing they start to bann smokers out of a lot of public places. Not only because of the harm they could do to others, but because of reducing the green cages in case they want to quit.
I forbid myself smoking inside the house. Never do that anymore. Allways go outside to the garden for a sig. Art knows that because we always break up our conversation during gaming when I smoke  ^-^
I hope that this will help me on my next try.
This tendering of the tabacco-industry and cultural role of smoking in our western society really goes deep. I remember visiting a nauticous museum when we were on holiday. I quit smoking a moth ago and during the holiday I hadn't too many difficulties with it. It was a great museum. It was put together by everything that friendly divers had brought together from the hundreds of sunken ships around the island where we were. There were the weirdest things, and the whole place was furnished like an old galley. The first half hour I was all exited about the stuff shown, but then suddenly came the craving for a sig. Now why the H*** would I suffer right now and right there? The answer was simple: The root visual I had of sailormen was a big, strong bloke, with a warm blue jersey, a beard, tattoos on his arms and a big, fat pipe in the mouth. I could allmost smell the tabacco in it. I remember I wanted to be like a sailor like that when I was a kid. Back then I didn't think of the pipe as that important, but now it was the missing piece. I really wanted to get a smoke!

Moments like these were the hardest. They kept the ambivalence alive and made me doubt my decision.
I doo think it is a matter of willing. And indeed, being proud of not smoking. I will quit soon. I made up my mind after getting this thrombosisleg. Smoking influences the bloodcirculation in a negative way in that matter. It's a signal that I do wrong continuing smoking. A stronger signal than my brown teeth, my cough in the morning, my yellow fingers, the dirt on the floor of my car (the only place where I still smoke inside  :-[) all the warnings for heavy deseases and all the money I keep spending.
I'm not sure if I try cold turkey again or if I get help. There is a new, still experimental medicin available in Holland for quiters. It's called Shampix. It's originally used as an antidepressive medicin but some doctor in France found out it held him form continuing drinking: It took his craving away.
From that day they keep experimenting with people addicted to booze, THC and smokers as well. And they do get some amazing results. A collegue of mine quit successfully smoking. The trick seems to be that you continue smoking while starting the medicin. It will make you loose satisfaction when smoking after a while and you'll simply loose interest in it. You'll stop eventually. Then, after using the medicin a month or 2, 3, you quit the medicine and that's it.
I might try that. It sounds good and I have faith in it. I know it won't w%&k for everybody but it's worth a try.

I've tried the safesig once, and it indeed gives a good immitation of smoking. I think it's a good way of quiting too. Keep up Mandru, you're doing the right thing!!!!!
In Holland it's called the "supersmoker" and when it was introduced it gained popularity due to the fact that you can indeed smoke inside builings, public places etc. because there's no smoke involved. So it was launched as a substitute for the smokers who didn't want to go outside for their brake  ^-^
The fact that you get your doses of nicotine and do the same handling as when smoking, makes it a strong way of getting rid of the tabacco. Once you completely changed to the supersmoker, I think that using it will get rediculous somehow. That's the moment when you will say goodbye to nicotine for good!!!

I'll keep you guys posted on my next attempt. I hope it will be my last and that I can join the world of nonsmokers soon!

Oh, and sorry for being wordy this time. It's just that I really care about this subject atm  ;)

[fragger]

Great read mate, and very enlightening! You've really looked into it :-X :-X

Good luck with your quitting quest, I hope you're successful with it :)

[Art Blade]

when I move house I will quit. Leave the green house behind  :-D

[JRD]

To quote Mark Twain

Quit smoking is easy, I`ve done it hundreds of times

:-D

[mmosu]

Binn, when you said "Shampix" I'm assuming you're referring to a brand name for varenicline, which is sold under the brand name Chantix here in the U.S.  This drug arrived in the American market to the sound of much fanfare and was hailed as the new "silver bullet" for smoking cessation.  I've had a few patients who successfully quit by using it, so it obviously does w@&k for some. 
Another drug that I know of is bupropion - it's actually an antidepressant, but when used for smoking cessation, it's sold under the brand name Zyban.  It's also a "weaning" process like you described, where you are still smoking when you begin taking the drug and then taper off of smoking, and then off of Zyban itself.  Zyban has a lot of research behind it, and an good track record with aiding in success.  It was the drug of choice in my dental school for helping patients quit because of the scientific evidence base backing it.

[Art Blade]

I'd never have thought a dentist to help someone quit smoking, interesting  :)

[mmosu]

It's becoming more common, which is pretty cool I think  :-X

[Art Blade]

yes  :)

Hmm, what else do you guys do..? Do you qualify as a real estate agent, too?  :-D

[Binnatics]

@Mmosu: It is indeed a brandname for the substance Varenicline. But in Holland it's called Champix. I read some more about the drug online. What this substance does is blocking the 'nicotin-receptors'. Therefore you will loose the will to smoke after a few days. Smoking simply doesn't w@&k anymore. Besides it gives you a small dose of dopamine, a bodyown substance that gives you a nice, confortable feeling. Most drugs do influence the dopaminesystem fo your body, including smoking.
The sideeffects are in most cases not really strong. I read about the effect for people with Champix: after 3 months (the length of the cure) 4 out of 10 smokers have quit. After a year that remains 2 out of 10.
So besides the help the medicine provides, it IS a matter of wanting to quit.

[JRD]

The efficiency of any drug will depend mostly on your will to quit. As I said before: if deep down inside you don't want to quit, then it becomes quite impossible. Once you make up your mind and really decides it's not good for you any more then you are one big step closer to quitting. It still an agression to your body though, even if it sounds weird - " how come quit smoking can be an agression to my body?". That's because you are dropping one habit you really enjoy and along with it a substance your body learned to live with.

During my quitting process, while my wife was still smoking, I convinced her to smoke other things than cigarettes (no, not marijuana). I have a narguilé (spelling?) at home and it's very easy to find the real tobacco they smoke in middle east to use with it. I admit I smoked the narguilé with her a few times in order to convince her to trade the marlboro pack for it  :-[ ::) . It has two main advantages: 1) you can't carry it with you so you won't smoke it everywhere, only at home and since it takes a while to prepare you won't smoke too much; 2) smells much, much better than cigarettes  :-D

After using it for a few months she slowly decreased the times she used to smoke the thing at home and eventually quit smoking for good. We still have that narguile with us but it is just getting dust somewhere.  8)

mmosu is right about replacing the cigarettes for something else and then taper off of smoking completely.

Be it through safe cig, shantix or whatver, I hope you guys manage to quit asap... I did and it was the best decision I made in my whole life.  :)

[nexor]

One day during a vacation in 1994 I decided to quit smoking after 30y, a month later I smoked a cigarette someone offered to me, I finished it and that was the last one I ever smoked. A friend's farther who also smoked for about 30y said to me that the craving will always be there and yes he was right, I still get the craving once in awhile but it's a lot less now than in the beginning. But then also I was fortunate I smoked Gunston Plain which is one of the strongest on South African market and because of my working environment I didn't smoke all that much but went through a pack of 20's a day. My wife is still smoking, but doesn't smoke in the house and when she smokes in the car she always open's the window, in the beginning I insisted she smoke like we used to because keeping the smoke away from me is not helping me to get over it, even today friends and family members smoke in my company and it doesn't bother me at all. 
So guys those of you who is busy giving up or wanting to give up, my thoughts are with you and may you succeed............

[Art Blade]

well done and thanks  :) :-X

[JRD]

Indeed... those of you trying to quit, listen to nexor... the craving will always be there but much less strong every day. You're gonna have to learn to live with it. As Bin said, you develop brain receptors for that substance and they won't just dissapear, only sleep.

But it's manageable, once you get through the quitting process, you'll see life is much better without it  ;)

[mmosu]

Do you qualify as a real estate agent, too?  :-D

That made me laugh Art - one of my mentors (who has been practicing  for 20 years now) started dabbling in real estate a few years ago.  He really enjoyed it, and now his plan is to retire from dentistry in the next 5 years and do real estate full-time  :-()

[Art Blade]

 ^+-+

[mandru]

Good information Binnatics and a lot of other good input too.  :-X

I'm currently hanging at about 5 packs a week supplemented by the safecig.  I just need to push in and get more serious about making the switch over.

[Art Blade]

Yesterday I smoked my last cig and quit for good.  :)

Kind of funny to watch other people in the streets when they whip out a pack of cigs and light one in dire need. Or in the club yesterday night, dancing and smoking and drinking alcohol at the same time.. I was fascinated observing all that. I had no cig and just a soft drink. The night held some strange dreams and during the day I surprised myself thinking about "now a cig" -- but that's all. Funny is how often that happens (I don't have any problem "resisting" that urge).

My solution? I think to myself, "ah.. so you need yet another  reward?" -- and laugh at me  ^+-+

More in detail, I'd go on like,  "Why do I want to reward myself now? Isn't life and what I've got good enough? I should feel pretty alright even without a cig." And I do.

You see, that nicotine constantly pushing your level of what feels "normal" so far up wasn't normal. Now, without nicotine, I start to get used to "normal  normal" again.  :-()

So, that's it, I'm out. I don't care. It's not dangerous for my health and life's a lot cheaper than before. :)

[nexor]

 Thats great Art......!!     A HUGE slap on the back mate       :-X :-X :-X