FC3: Learning from mistakes

[ninzza]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/319729/previews/far-cry-3-learning-from-mistakes/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS

I especially like this paragraph:

"We want our setting to feel like a living place. Not something you're driving yourself, but something you just kind of get involved in," says Keen. "You'll see villagers doing something over there, or a fight happening over here, or a crash that's happened. You'll get a real feeling that the world is alive and that it's going about its business when you're not there. There are people trying to live their lives in this dangerous world. You're going to meet people who'll offer you tasks that aren't all about combat. Even the really bad guys will leave you alone if you help them out."

So far FC3 looks very promising :-X

[PZ]

Sounds very promising - hope they can deliver.

[Art Blade]

Oh yes. They better  :-D

[spaceboy]

I read that and have read a few things on UBI's forums.  I get equal amounts of encouragement and discouragement.  I'm afraid what I want is FC2.1 instead of FC3.  I think I'll miss the no-HUD/actual map, I want at least SOME respawning so there is still fun to be had, I don't want floating XP points on my shots.  I am afraid and don't want to get too excited for this game lest I be disappointed.

[JRD]

I understand you space.

We created very high expectations regarding FC3 that it is very likely they will not (and can not) deliver what we want, which might lead to some disappointment  :-(

So I`m trying to keep the bar a bit lower so I won`t get frustrated when it finally comes out. FC2.1 would be great though  ;D

Let`s just see the new installment as a new game with new features to play with and some old features to make us feel like we`re playing a Far Cry game.

If they are working on the Dunia engine we might very well have fire like we had in FC2. Some sound effects I heard on the videos are the same we had before. They mentioned how much they wanted to make the buddy system w@&k and that now you`ll have more interaction with neutral NPCs.... hopefully it won`t disappoint us at all!  8)

[spaceboy]

Yeah, about the only thing that I've heard that would really put me off is the floating XP points after every kill or whatever.  That could put me out of the market for it, honestly.

Everything else I can live with and of course some of what they said sounds like good and welcome improvements.  It may just come down to assessing it on it's own merit as a game rather than our dream Far Cry 2 sequal.  All this talk of FC2 though makes me want to replay it...:)

[PZ]

This is an off-the-wall question, but what exactly is "floating XP", and how does that impact the game?   ????

[spaceboy]

Skip ahead somewhere in the middle after he's done doing stealth... and actually shoots someone.

It's like a multiplayer looking "point" burst that shows +10 or whatever everytime you shoot someone.  It would COMPLETELY ruin the immersion factor of any sort in a single player game.  Just, NO, please, NO.  There might be a more official name for this than floating XP, but either way I call it a horrible addition to a game that is supposed to be "Far Cry".

Far Cry 3 | Alternate E3 Demo Walk Through [HD]

EDIT:  don't get me wrong, everything else in this vid looks great!  I just can't express how bad I think the xp thing is in this sort of game.

[Art Blade]

Too much of an arcade game, those floating XP points.

[fragger]

Aye. Too Super Mario for me as well.

[spaceboy]

I knew at least most of my fellow brothers here would agree :)  It alone is such a drastic change from FC2 in how the game is being perceived by the devs that it's what makes me concerned about the entirety of the game.  On that note, I believe it is an all new dev team working on this FYI. 

It just seems like such a change in ideology that even if they remove it or make it a toggle on/off I wonder what other blasphemous ideas they have buried in that code!

EDIT:  It's like it doesn't jive with the great sounding quote that ninzza posted.  It makes me scared the good stuff I hear is just Marketing.

"We want our setting to feel like a living place. Not something you're driving yourself, but something you just kind of get involved in," says Keen. "You'll see villagers doing something over there, or a fight happening over here, or a crash that's happened. You'll get a real feeling that the world is alive and that it's going about its business when you're not there. There are people trying to live their lives in this dangerous world. You're going to meet people who'll offer you tasks that aren't all about combat. Even the really bad guys will leave you alone if you help them out."

sounds good right?  what if the next sentence is "And for every kill these mercs will spout XP points into the air like bubbles of joy!  We want to reward you for everything you do and never let you forget that first and foremost you are playing a game!  It's going to totally cool and you can rank up all the way to Super-God-Merc-of-all-time, and spend your XP on new clothes and hairdos and paint jobs for your grenade launchers!!!!

sorry, but yeah this is a sore point for me.  ;)

[fragger]

Mouth off about it by all means, mate :-()

I guess we'll see in time, but I'm beginning to suspect that FC2 is going to end up being a one-off experience in gaming. Considering what a departure it was from its predecessor, I can't help feeling that FC3 will be yet another great departure - only it'll depart back towards satisfying the fickle appetites of the masses who want to get rid of the very things that made FC2 unique and turn it into another run-of-the-mill shooter, or even a role-playing affair, which those XPs are smacking of.

We may be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not holding my breath at this point.

[PZ]

I suspect you're right, space.  There will probably be a toggle to turn it off, but it does cause one to worry about whom this game is being marketed to - the FC2 whining kids?  Did all that whining make so strong an impression that Ubi is going to go to the dark side?  I hope not because the visuals through that sniper rifle are stunning.

[mmosu]

Too much of an arcade game, those floating XP points.

If I want to play Borderlands, I'll play Borderlands.  In a game like that, it makes sense, and even adds to the experience.  In a game like FC, it's a peak behind the curtain that the hardcore audience would rather not take, and too much of a reminder that this is a game.

[JRD]

Indeed... if I want to play Borderlands, I`ll play Borderlands.  >:((

It is the same video shown before only with the XP points popping out now... WTF??  ????

I too remember reading about a whole new team working on FC3... which means a whole new game that only resembles the previous one, like FC2 was to FC1... it`s becoming a patchwork franchise  :-\\

[spaceboy]

stuff like this has it's place for sure.  MP of course is fine.  Also I thought as I was playing some God of War last night, it pops up on the side and tells me my hits, and orbs and what not.  It doesn't bother me at all.  It's just FC2 especially was special with some of the best immersion, no HUD, in game map, etc.  But even other FPS games like Battlefield, Killzone, Resistance, COD whatever, none of them have this XP stuff in the single player campaign.

edit - JRD snuck in.  So you saw a video like that without the XP?  That gives me hope.  I know this is a point of contention on the UBI forums, most FC2 fans dislike it of course.  If they take it out or toggle it I'm sure the game will be tons of fun (if not exactly what we wanted, pretty close), but if it stays in I just might cry.

[JRD]

edit - JRD snuck in.  So you saw a video like that without the XP?  That gives me hope. 

... or is it the same video shown before but then I was so amazed with the visuals that I didn`t notice the XP thingy  ????  :-[  :D

[mmosu]

I think it was the same video, but the one without the xp stuff was the first look at the game, so they removed all the extraneous stuff so people could just focus on how good the game looks.  Later versions of that vid had the nuts and bolts added back in, because they were now using that video as a tool to demonstrate some of the actual game mechanics.  I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I think the xp is there to stay - whether or not you can toggle it so you don't have to look at it remains to be seen, hopefully the devs are listening up!  As a hardcore open-world game, FC2 has a equally hardcore fanbase - one that would just as soon burn you at the stake then play a game that they didn't feel was up to snuff  >:D

[Binnatics]

There's a new economy, a cover system, a levelling system, and weapons which simply explode with power. "It's really important," says Keen, "for us to make it all feel real."

Is that an oxymoron ????
'Weapons which simply explode with power', and 'feeling real'....

I think they want to make a commercial hit, wit a special dip-sauce that's called Farcry.
I agree that this game will be totally different. More arcade, big money style. But also trying to make something special. These two things can come together though.
It'll be all different, but the way they express their thoughts and desires of making a world that will go on living, even when you're not there, sounds good.

My biggest concern so far is that they will make it easy. I've been playing FC2 on easy the first time, and that was pretty easy enough imho. Later I played it on infamous, and that was pretty tough. Not too tough though.
If they're making killing and sneeking easier, that might turn out to end up in a game that's too easy. I mean, why sneek if you could just kill everybody with a mad rush of machinegunfire?

FC2 was pure violence. There were no citizens, except for some well hidden, unkillable ppl who provide medicine. You could only kill bad guys, in fact. You're one of them. That makes the end quite satisfying. This FC3 sounds like a world where you'll have decisions to make, and good people to deal with. That will make the game interesting in another way.

Something else is what catches my attention: Why are these makers so much chatting about the game? It seems that they're giving all the secrets and excitements away? Isn't it more usual to not let the enemy sniff in the camp before the booming release?

..... maybe when you kill a good guy / normal citizen you'll get a floating "minus 10 xp"  >:D

[PZ]

... As a hardcore open-world game, FC2 has a equally hardcore fanbase - one that would just as soon burn you at the stake ...

...or run you down like a Datsun Dummy  :-()

The decision-making does sound intriguing - almost like a combination between Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3

[JRD]

(...)
Something else is what catches my attention: Why are these makers so much chatting about the game? It seems that they're giving all the secrets and excitements away? Isn't it more usual to not let the enemy sniff in the camp before the booming release?

I think they might be testing the audience. Imagine you have an idea and you want to see what players would think about it. Toss in a gameplay video, some statements on an interview at E3 and wait for the feedback in the forums, facebook, twitter etc.... if it turns out to be a bad idea, they still have time to rule that one out.  ;)

If this is true, they could drop by here and read some of our thoughts about XP...  :'(

[mmosu]

Are they really telling us anything new though?  If you read the interviews and listen to the voice-overs that have been released so far, they're really saying the same things over and over in different ways.  It all boils down to character development, rpg elements, and a brutally disturbing and lawless world.  Dress it up anyway you want, everything they've given us so far falls in to these categories.  If you ask me, they're still playing it fairly close to the chest . . .

[mandru]

I don't like the floating XPs.  I can get that on 10+ year old Runescape.   :(

THe XP's for the grab and neck break wasn't rewarded until you drop the body and I noticed that there was 40 XP's awarded for blowing up the bridge and taking out the two guards at the same time.  So what was that 20 XP's for the bridge and 10 XP's for each guard deadded?  Or is there a difficulty multiplier at play here too?

We'll have to wait and see.

If I can toggle off the XP count I will.  For me making good choices, staying alive through obstacles and skirmishes to push on through the game storyline is more to my taste.

[Binnatics]

I agree with the rest about the XP; screw it, it doesn't belong in a game like FC. But if it's the new way of getting access to certain upgrades (like usual in XP based games), leveling up and getting better gear or attachments and so, well then we wouldn't be looking for diamonds anymore would we? It kind of changes the whole aspect of the game. A good story-related mission with a lot of killing would be more interesting then exploring the land to hopefully find diamond cases and so.
I'm sure there will be workarounds soon enough on how to quickly respawn some quardpost-personel to shoot some more and boost some XP ;)

Thereby I realize that one of the best things (openworldrelated) of FC2, is the fact that you can't settle. You have to keep on traveling, and traveling means constant danger and tension.

I hope FC3 won't lack that.

[ninzza]

Like all of you, I hate those XP flying on the screen every time you make  a kill.
In Ubisoft forum, there were at least 3,4 threads complaining about this issue; I think  we wont see the XP in the final version or we have the option to toggle it.

I love FC2 but it could've been more interesting if it had better, deeper storyline, and many RPG elements: friendly NPC's with whom you inteact,  lots of sites of interest to explore, tons of items to collect ... Now FC3 looks like what FC2 should have been.