Weapons Degradation, How does It w@&k?

[Ricamundo]

I was wondering how the game works to degrade your wepaons. Is it based on straight game play time with a given weapon? is it based on reload cycles? The number of shots fired? The number of times you replace your weapons off the gun shop walls?

I'm thinking its shots fired.

[PZ]

I tend to agree about the shots being fired as a gauge of weapon degradation.  I've wondered however if swimming will rust a weapon quicker than staying on dry land.

[Art Blade]

As far as I know it is only reloading. Should do some testings... "unlimitedAmmo 1" :)

[Art Blade]

Alright testing as I write:

I am in Leboa in front of the armoury at Mike's. Game difficulty on "easy". I walk in, grab a fresh 6P9 silenced hand gun, have unlimited ammo on. I walk outside and start firing until it jams for the first time. I decide to test three of those guns.

A) I shoot entire clips, reloading only when running dry.

1st gun: 23rd clip and jam
2nd gun: 22nd clip and jam
3rd gun: 29th clip and jam

B) I reload after every shot.

1st gun: I stop counting and testing after 80 shots and reloads without jamming.
Now we can be quite sure it's NOT related to reloading

C) as in A) only I am standing in the water and dive after each reload

1st gun: 19th clip and jam
2nd gun: 27th clip and jam
3rd gun: 22nd clip and jam

Now we can be quite sure it's NOT related to diving

Summary: Reloaded 80 times in a row, not jamming. Else, range between 19 and 29 clips until jamming under dry or wet conditions about equal. The stories we've heard seem to be pure fiction.

[PZ]

Nice w@&k Art,  through investigation -  :-X

[Art Blade]

Nice w@&k Art,  through investigation -  :-X

so true, I am "through" with investigations of that LOL

[JRD]

Maybe its something much easier to program.... maybe its just how long its been since you pulled it out from the wall in the armory

[spaceboy]

Nice w@&k Art,  through investigation -  :-X

so true, I am "through" with investigations of that LOL

I knew when I saw PZ's typo, someone was going to get him.  Should've known it would be you Art,  nice way to tie it all together. 

[Fiach]

Wow thats thorough!

I cant see why the bothered with the degradation, it makes sense in a game like System Shock, where you are screwed if your weapon breaks, IIRC you could also splice parts from two guns together, to make a decent one (maybe Im mixing that up with FO3).

The bottome line though, was the degradation made a difference, in FC2 you can get a new weapon for free at the arms dealer.

If they wanted a less contrived degradation system, maybe a "repair" function at the dealer that cost diamonds, but as it stands, it seems pointless.

The malaria thing is an odd inclusion to make you do a couple of really dumb missions, for example, I chose to defend the church, thinking it may have a bearing on my malaria, but when I reloaded and did the bar instead, it had the same result.

The malaria should have affected your aim and HP instead of a game over, you could try to fight your way to medecine with reduced stats.

Both of these mechanics (Degrades and Malaria) would (IMO) be the games only weakness' as they ultimately serve no purpose.

Sorry for going on, but for such a great game, their inclusion is so pointless as to beg the quesion why ?

/end rant mode.

[Art Blade]

Tell you what. On my first through, in Leboa, I was so fed up with malaria and degradation especially of used guns you pick up, I stopped playing for a few weeks (instead, did a 2nd through in Fallout3). Then I missed driving a Jeep in the deserts of Africa and thought, maybe I find some cheats to get rid of malaria.

I have to add here that on my first through I commited a mistake. Somehow I managed to not get the pillbox in time and fell over every once and then, almost unable to survive my trip to the underground location.

On searching the web I happened upon this wonderful site and saw what kind of things they did in their game, saw the maps with patrol routes and everything.

Then I decided to cope with the odds of the game and ever since... you can read here all over the place what I did since. Regarding degradation (and malaria) I can only add

Come on arsehole, take it like a man! I've seen you! You are nothing, and I'll make you a whole lot less than nothing! I push you out now!

;D ;D ;D

[Ricamundo]

Nice w@&k on the degredation, Art. I'm glad to know it's not reloading, as i tend to reload as often as possible, as i hate getting caught in a firefight with a 1/2 empty clip.

[PZ]

Nice w@&k Art,  through investigation -  :-X

so true, I am "through" with investigations of that LOL

hahaha, you got me on that one!   ;D

[PZ]

.... Then I decided to cope with the odds of the game and ever since... you can read here all over the place what I did since...

I can echo your sentiments Art,  while some aspects of the game might seem pointless, they can also be viewed as other characteristics to cope with in mission planning.  For me, the malaria missions (which may be taken concurrently with other missions) are another way to extend game play, and one additional thing to consider while planning your FC2 activities.  Plus in the back of my mind, I never know when an attack will occur, so it adds to the adrenalin rush of the moment.  It is somewhat the same with the weapons degradation - it is true that you can always get a new one at the armory, but you need to keep a trip to refresh your weapons in mind as you mission plan - forget and you'll end up with a jam in a nasty fire fight.  At first I too felt that the degradation was unessential, but now taking care of weapons refresh is so natural, it almost makes me feel like a seasoned merc - don't even need to think about it, I am so trained to take care of them.  Re-spawn at guard posts in another characteristic that might annoy, but I now use them to amuse myself while trying new things (like using a 6P9 to start propane tank fires without the mercs even knowing that I'm around.)

I guess what I'm alluding to is to take whatever characteristic you find objectionable in the game and try to turn it into something you can use to your advantage when immersing yourself in the game, can be lots of fun, and surely expands your pleasure in the game.

[Fiach]

Well maybe I gave the wrong impression, they dont annoy me, other than to me they serve no purpose.

Take the respawns, I think thats a great mechanic, otherwise the game would be shorter if they didnt respawn, also it keeps you on your toes and breaks up the long driving journeys.

The medicine was never an issue for me, there was always a message in my journal after I cleared a few missions, to go and get pills from the underground, so I never needed to plan around it.

The degrades were no big deal as I was always in the dealers doing convoy missions or in Mikes, so I could replenish the weapons frequently.

One thing that did annoy me in retrospect was, when I moved to Act 2, my gold AK47 was gone from my case ..... never used it anyway, I preferred the one I had from the start, I forget the name I think it was 6 diamonds.

Seems to me that it takes the same amount of non-headshot bullets to kill someone regardless of the calibre/accuracy of the weapon, this may not be true, its just an impression I got, so I never got into a weapon frenzy really with tha game, I tended to use the Dragonuv plus Mac 10 (hardly bothered with the mac 10 though. Then went to the .50 calibre sniper rifle (AS50?) and the SAW.

I tended to use grenades instead of IDE's or RPG for convoys, just because I couldnt be bothered to go to the dealer for IDE's. I would collect vehicles and barricade the path and have a turkey shoot.

I suppose one of the games strengths is you can play it whatever way you want.

I think I can safely say this is one of the best games I have ever played, simple to play and hard to master, due to the myriad of ways you can approach situations.

Sorry went into rant mode again, I really need to get that sorted  :-[

[Art Blade]

I don't think you were in a rant mode. It was a review and in general you give credits to the game, so no worries there matey :) In fact, you seem to enjoy it, which made you sign up here :)

[JRD]

Well maybe I gave the wrong impression, they dont annoy me, other than to me they serve no purpose.
(...)
Sorry went into rant mode again, I really need to get that sorted  :-[

No reason to be sorry Fiach... feel free to post what you like or dislike in FC2!  :-X

I see your point here... degradation is quite pointless indeed, because it doesn't lead you to other features like maintenance for instance.
I can see how one would have to take care of his weapons if you should do it instead of taking guns from a wall with a magic endless supply.
There is another item on my FC3 wishlist  ;)

[retiredgord]

Alot of the members will not consider that a rant at all.  I, myself, would like to have a "repair/maintenance" feature built in to maintain weapons better. In retrospect that might make the game less flowing and less interesting because this way you need to think about "just picking up" another weapon.  Hell it may be worse than the ones you have now.
I can't recall how many times I had to grab "old Rusty" off a dead merc and have it fire twice and stop.  Geez, that's annoying.  IT'S NOT NICE TO ANNOY THE OLD GUYS.  lol

[Art Blade]

I hear they're about to release a new DLC for elderly gamers. New vehicles are wheelchairs in different flavours and for weapons a set of hand-carved walking sticks.

[PZ]

As always, you're a funny guy Art!   ;D

Good honest discussion is always appreciated Fiach,

I don't think any of us interpreted your post as a rant - just an expression of honest opinion.  I can say from my perspective that I enjoy your posts!  :-X

[Fiach]

Coolness, cheers :)

Come on Art!!! Who wouldnt want a pimped up armoured wheel chair?!?

Think of the possibilities:

Popout scythes on the wheels for eager yet errant outpost guards.

Mini bazookas in each arm for those too cheap to buy the crossbow DLC.

Turbo for when you need to haul a$$.

Quads are for wimps!

:P

[Art Blade]

Now you've done it. You know what? Applaud -> +1 Karma for you (about time too) ;D

[retiredgord]

ART, I like the idea of a pimped-out walker and  those canes sound useful too.  I could get to the front of the Geritol line much quicker. Fiach you can design mine for me.  lol

[Art Blade]

i hate getting caught in a firefight with a 1/2 empty clip.

Half an hour ago I ran into a GP, intense firefight, only one merc left who hid behind a bush. He opened fire, I returned fire and we both ran dry. He started swearing in some African dialect, I in my own native tongue, the two of us reloading weapons, eye-to-eye and cursing... hehe

[Fiach]

Sounds like a weird kind of John Woo movie LOL :)

[Ricamundo]

I'd be fun to supstitute the machete for a sturdy wooden cane for bashing in boarded up doorways, and merc craniums too. ;)