It´s a great game but...

[Art Blade]

long before the game was out, the first report about FC2 in a games mag made me believe that those buddies would walk around in the area, accompany you during journeys so they'd be nearby to drag you out of the line of fire in case you got wounded. To have them do that, there was that buddy "history" feature, described as a system that based on gaining good reputation with your buddies, befriending them, so they might help you... ignore them and they would not come to your rescue... none of which made it into the release.

[mmosu]

Some of those cutsceens might have been interesting Mandru, but I kind of feel like the fact that the game never cuts from first-person view is a big plus.  I don't know if that is the type of cutsceen you had in mind, or if you were thinking more of a "press the interact button to sit down and knock one back" type deal while the buddy pitches the job to you. 

By the way, how did everything play out at the LZ when nobody showed up?  I had theorized in another thread a long time ago about killing all the buddies to see if the arms dealer was still alive when you finally arrived (mainly so I could do the honors myself ;)).  I'm assuming captain mustache was dead already when you got there.

[Art Blade]

the problem is, you cannot kill all your buddies before you reach the LZ.

[mmosu]

Now see that is something I have never been really very clear on.  I don't know if I missed part of the discussion on this at some point or what.  I've heard people on here say that they tried to kill all of their buddies before but something always happened to prevent them from doing it.  That has been my experience too, it's as if something out of your control will always intervene.  So is that the final consensus on the topic, you can't kill them all?

[Art Blade]

right. For example, in Pala, you will always have one buddy left to push the fridge in front of the door at Mike's. I've tried it, "kill 'em all" was my goal, but I couldn't. If you killed that fridge buddy, he'd be resurrected and be at the LZ (as goes for all buddies at Mike's).

[PZ]

Never was able to kill the fridge buddy, although everyone else in the room was dead.  I lined the outside of Mike's with IEDs and torched them, destroying furniture and all the other buddies.

[spaceboy]

long before the game was out, the first report about FC2 in a games mag made me believe that those buddies would walk around in the area, accompany you during journeys so they'd be nearby to drag you out of the line of fire in case you got wounded. To have them do that, there was that buddy "history" feature, described as a system that based on gaining good reputation with your buddies, befriending them, so they might help you... ignore them and they would not come to your rescue... none of which made it into the release.

Right, i also mentioned once a long time ago that the first preview I read had a pretend dialogue with another gamer saying something like:

"I had to destroy the pipeline." 
"The pipeline?  I defended that thing"

We know the mission is always destroy, not sure if the writer had bad info or the original intent of UBI was to make an even more dynamic world.  This is along the lines of what people said here - what if the story changed depending on who you worked for?

To take it further what if missions changed depending on your APR vs. UFLL employment standpoint, but also changed again when you double crossed and worked for the other, or took a buddy mission that was detrimental to your "side" - but only if they saw you there or someone escaped your wrath....  Can you imagine the variations of play throughs?  It doesn't seem too far fetched for future gaming.

Even now we always say it seems the mercs really live their lives when your not right there (distant explosions, coming across car crashes).  What if there was just some type of "karma" meter that told the various AI groups how to react to you? 

[Art Blade]

good point, I'd love more variety and a decision-driven story/gameplay.

Remembering the first story about FC2 in that mag, I still have that picture in my head where you see your avatar look at a big watch. Not in a safehouse, but somewhere outside. I'd love to have that watch in the game :)

[fragger]

 :-X Great ideas there space, that sort of diversity would make for a tremendous gaming experience. It would mean much more complicated coding, but I don't think it's outside the bounds of doability.

I'd love to have the watch available at all times too, Art! It would come in handy to know how far away nightfall was, for instance, without having to go to a safehouse to find out. Sometimes you can guage it roughly by noting where the sun is, but that's not an option on a dull or rainy day.

[Dweller_Benthos]

Yeah, there is a screenshot somewhere of the watch outside the safehouse. Guess that never got to the final game. And I do remember the discussion of the pipeline, either defend or destroy. I can see it working this way: you start out sort of neutral, doing jobs for whoever pays the most. Then, partway into the game, you have to decide which side to fight for. From there on, the game can be different depending on that choice. Wouldn't take all that much extra coding. Heck, they did it way back when in one of the Jedi Knight games where you decided to go light side or dark side. Depending on that, by the end of the game, you were either a celebrated Jedi Knight in a new republic or the new iron fisted emperor of the Sith. That's more clear cut though, in FC2, choosing which side to go with could be more of a gray area and you might not like the decision you made by the time the end game comes around. Say, choose one side and you help refugees escape the country, choose the other side and you're set up at the border with a bunch of your thug friends ready to gun them down.

[spaceboy]

That's a cool different ending idea DB.  So I know I'm no programmer, but how hard would it be to do the karma thing though?

You've already got the same mercs treating you differently in a cease-fire zone right?  And they even go from ignoring you to pushing you around and getting a bit aggresive.  So what if they made another level of AI where they actually w@&k with you against the other AI (just like in most military games etc.) but maybe they can turn on you if you push em or shoot em too much.

It just seems like there's coding that tells the AI how to react to you - the same guys that'll walk past you in Pala - shoot just one of them - and some other coding is called in to tell them to shoot you.

So I'm just thinking if you had multiple levels of karma that, depending on your previous choices - the different coding gets "called in" to tell them how to react to you.  Double cross "too much" or whatever and you can never earn back their affection and they all want to shoot you just like we know it now.

[Art Blade]

That sort of karma is used in HitMan:BloodMoney. If you finish a mission leaving eye-witnesses and or video tapes, your "reputation" will change how people react in the next mission.

Also, if you are dressed like a chef when someone sees you doing something illegal, they will recognise you immediately, "word spreads," but they won't spot you if you secretly change your clothes and disguise yourself as, say, a cop. Those things are called "flags," if I am not mistaken, and flagged items, such as those chef clothes, determine how the AI responds.

It should be easy to flag you, like flag you "friend" for all APR as long as you w@&k for them, and "enemy" for all UFFL. Could be neutralised, flag removed, once a job is done. Something along those lines :)

[spaceboy]

sound cool Art - now you've got my idea  :-X

I hadn't heard much of hitman

[Art Blade]

you can read about HitMan in the "other games" board :)

[Roaven]

I don't like the ending either, but I rationalize it the same as a movie that has an ending that disturbs - I can see why the developers did it, but it is not my cup of tea so to speak.  With that said, when I play through, I just quit before the 96-ish% and start fresh either from the beginning or from a prior save.  Because I am starting with the PC version now, and can use the information in the fine cheats thread that Art started, I can do all kinds of neat things that you simply can't do with console versions, so it is almost like a brand new game for me.

As to things that I don't care for, there is very little - most of what a new user finds objectionable can be overcome by in-game technique.  For instance, re-spawn in the game is quite rapid - it is easy to avoid the GPs or try new attack techniques.

However, there are some things that I would wish for to make the game truly one of a kind for me:

• Cooperative MP - I would love to get together with 3-4 other members of our site in cooperative mission play - imagine having 3 buddies pile into an assault truck careening through the FC2 world.
• A map generator for SP where GPs and areas are automatically populated with mercs, the density of which is the mappers choice.
• Some kind of SDK where you could create new missions which you could upload for others to enjoy. - imagine an endless supply of missions that you could simply plug into your system.
  

I'd say cut it down to two people, as the vehicles in the game(minus the buggy) seem to be made for two. As for the map generator for single player, I have but one thing to say about that...
HELL YEAH! Dunno if it would w@&k on consoles, but that would be so awesome.

[mmosu]

Yeah Space, I feel you with the whole Karma thing.

There was a game way back on PS2 called Way of the Samurai, and it did something similar.  It was basically a branching game and even though a full playthrough could be done in one sitting, trying to tease out all of the possibilities kept you coming back.  Now that I think about it, it had some elements in common with FarCry.  It focused on the fall of the Meiji and the end of feudal Japan.  There were two families fighting over a jagged little peice of turf, and later in the game the newly formed Imperial army becomes involved.  You had to choose a side, at least in the beginning, and you could betray, moonlight for the other side, or even be a lone wolf ;). There were something like ten different endings if I remember, with the ultimate ending coming when you were able to actually unite the two feuding families against the Imperial army.  This would require complex planning and well thought out moves, because your actions and your reputation would follow you and effect how each and every character interacted.  Even something as small as drawing your sword in the presence of the wrong person could sever your relations with them.  It was a fun little game, and if they could do it back then they surely could do something like what we are talking about now.

[Dweller_Benthos]

At this point, with the finished game, going back and coding for a team-like game where you join one side or the other, would be quite a chore. It could have been done fairly easily, I would think, if that's the way it was planned for in the beginning. From the early screenshots and other clues around, that might have been what they were going for, but decided not to for some reason. It could have been a request from the bean counters to get the game out in time for xmas last year, and the team aspect would have taken another 6 months.

[spaceboy]

Yeah Space, I feel you with the whole Karma thing.

There was a game way back on PS2 called Way of the Samurai, and it did something similar.  It was basically a branching game and even though a full playthrough could be done in one sitting, trying to tease out all of the possibilities kept you coming back.  Now that I think about it, it had some elements in common with FarCry.  It focused on the fall of the Meiji and the end of feudal Japan.  There were two families fighting over a jagged little peice of turf, and later in the game the newly formed Imperial army becomes involved.  You had to choose a side, at least in the beginning, and you could betray, moonlight for the other side, or even be a lone wolf ;). There were something like ten different endings if I remember, with the ultimate ending coming when you were able to actually unite the two feuding families against the Imperial army.  This would require complex planning and well thought out moves, because your actions and your reputation would follow you and effect how each and every character interacted.  Even something as small as drawing your sword in the presence of the wrong person could sever your relations with them.  It was a fun little game, and if they could do it back then they surely could do something like what we are talking about now.

That sounds pretty wicked mmosu.  Hmmm I may need to add that to my list.  Thanks for the tip!

[mmosu]

Yeah, it was an obscure little title that I just happened upon way back in the day.  The time frame of the game was about two days, so that was how much time you had to make and break relationships before the final battle.  Another interesting bit that reminds me of FarCry:  most of the paths you could take ultimately ended in defeat for you, only a few of the endings resulted in anything that could be seen as victory for the samurai.  Oh, and if you died it affected later playthroughs because you lost stats and any swords you happened to be carrying (you collected swords as you played, which were all upgradeable, could be rolled over to the next playthrough, and some of which had special attacks and powers).  So, if you thought you would die or couldn't win, you could literally walk away, abandon the valley and any allies you had made, and end that playthrough but keep all your stuff.  Like I said, a neat little game.  :-X