Games for Window - LIVE!

[JRD]

I couldn't believe when I tryed to hook up with fellow OWG member Art Blade for an online free roam session.
I got a message saying "You are trying to connect from a region not supported by LIVE!"
So I checked their website and here is a list of countries supported by GFWL

Australia: International English
Austria: German
Belgium: Dutch, French
Canada: English, French
Denmark: Danish
Finland: Finnish, Swedish
France: French
Germany: German
Hong Kong: Traditional Chinese, English
India: English
Ireland: International English
Italy: Italian
Japan: Japanese
Korea: Korean
Mexico: Spanish
Netherlands: Dutch
New Zealand: International English
Norway: Norwegian
Portugal: Portuguese
Singapore: International English
Spain: Spanish
Sweden: Swedish
Switzerland: German, French, Italian
Taiwan: Traditional Chinese
United Kingdom: International English
United States: English

As you can see... Brazil is not on the list.

In my opinion, a stupid call - leave millions of potential players aside. A shame and a demonstration of bad management from Windows. A HUGE market is left offline....
It's very unlikely that someone from Windows read this, but I'd like to make a formal protest at OWG... I just cannot play online with my fellow mercs if the MP game runs with GFWL.
If I was interested in MP only, I wouldn't have bought most of my games as well as many guys from South America.
Millions of potential players... millions!!!
Shame on you Windows, bad, bad Windows!

[deadman1]

Strange that have left out thewhole of South America but have included India. I mean how many people in India own a computer or console!

[JRD]

Well... there are one billion people living there... if only 1% of the population buy games... that's 10 million buyers... a lot I'd say!!

[retiredgord]

A lot of computers in India if any time you have trouble that is where the toll-free number seems to go to direct.
Reminds me of that scene in Transformers where the leader has to go out and borrow a fellow soldiers' Credit Card during a battle so he can phone the Pentagon and the person at the other end is .....

[deadman1]

Well... there are one billion people living there... if only 1% of the population buy games... that's 10 million buyers... a lot I'd say!!

Oops I forgot how many there are of them, you are right about that

[Hacko]

It does seem odd that Brazil is not on that list.  :D

[Fiach]

What are brazils laws like vis a vis video games?

I know Bully (aka Canis Canem Edit) by the makers of GTA was banned there, maybe its a legal hurdle.

[Fiach]

This I found interesting :

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/10/microsoft-to-launch-xbox-360-in-brazil-next-month/

Where the 360 goes, LIVE will follow.

[JRD]

What are brazils laws like vis a vis video games?

I know Bully (aka Canis Canem Edit) by the makers of GTA was banned there, maybe its a legal hurdle.

Legislations are pretty liberal I'd say... Bully was banned from many countries as well as GTA... not sure about Bully, but GTA is sold normally here and people doesn't complain about the politically correct game

Not sure if it's a legal issue though, otherwise some other country in Latin America could have LIVE!.... the whole LA is out of that list...

[JRD]

This I found interesting :

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/10/microsoft-to-launch-xbox-360-in-brazil-next-month/

Where the 360 goes, LIVE will follow.

Nice article, thanks....
Highlights are:
- Analysts believe the 360 can sell 11 million units in Brazil
- Sold directly in Brazil since 2006...

Now, does it make sense?

[spaceboy]

so sorry to hear of your problems JRD.  There is a lot I take for granted and being that you have a good internet connection I just figured it would w@&k.  It really is a shame.

[Art Blade]

I already expressed what I think about that with explicit language, during a chat at Mike's (OWG chat room, for those who don't know that term), after we found out what prevented JRD from "going live" with FUEL.

Reading and considering the previous posts here, I think there is one more thing going to play a role. The way games and software in general will be sold in future. Most of you know (and people like me boycott) online stores like STEAM. MSLive is something like it, and everyone is looking with greedy eyes at Apple's iShop which proved profit is possible where others had failed in the past. The future is going to be more and more off the shops and into online-selling only. Because they cut down costs for packing and shipping and personel. By the way, you lose the right of ownership. All you get is a permission to use software that you don't really posess (no CD...) and it can be more strict as in how long you can use it or on how many computers you may install it etc.

Also, bundling software A (the game Fuel) with another company's online software B (MS Live) opens out into a loss of quality for the customers due to a significant loss of warranted characteristics (multiplayer) just because it does not meet the interests of company B to support a certain region. That is big politics. If a company can dictate over a country, that is simply dangerous. Now, with respect of Brazil and well, the entire continent, we can now see what consequences that may have.

It doesn't make a difference if some players now decide to boycott Live, Steam, or companies like MS or companies that have business with them... this is already part of the future. All you could possibly do is set up laws... against what? Market economy?

I am so fed up with this you wouldn't believe. And it is sad JRD (and all his fellow countrymen) can't play a game like FUEL online, only because the game producers bundle it with Live.

/Rant mode off

[PZ]

I enjoy a good rant now and then  ;D

I agree with you though; it's all about the politics of big business.  In fact, politics are driven by human greed, and we as the consumers can only guess at what facet of greed a company is going to use.  Disgusting really.

[Fiach]

yeah I agree that digi download as a deliver method will become the norm, sooner, rather than later, I hate STEAM, I got HL plus expansions on 360 so ne STeAM was needed.

I think the digi delivery will be pushed by the manufacturers becase, well you have the DRM, which will help vs piracy, but also, the high street shops and the likes of EBAY etc, selling second hand games.

This heavy rotation of single games through multiple owners via second hand sales and rentals is really ticking off the devs, they are using millions (I think GTA4 cost 100 mill to make) to create games and losing millions for the above reasons.

This does have the net effect of reducing the quality and choice of future games, when only companies like EA etc will be able to afford to make games.

I think that XBOX 360 has been like a beacon of hope for dev's and thats why it gets such support. It makes digital delivery more of a "normal" practice in peoples perception, it also has the security of only being played on the console that downloaded the files, you can only change that download to another console ONCE PER YEAR PER XBOX LIVE ACCOUNT!, So, if you have 10 games worth of DLC, your console craps out, you can only transfer them once per year to other consoles, so if within that year, your second console breaks down, you are screwed.

I read awhile back that a really small percentage (like 11% or something equally small) of games are sold through high street retailers anymore.

Kinda went off on one there, but meh I'm bored lol :)

[Art Blade]

I can relate to all that, agree. I bet all of you have some CDs in your drawers somewhere with old programs you could still use... install... even after years... on multiple PCs (over time)... that will be history with online selling. Now we are at the border of old and new ways of distributing software. Now they still sell physical media (CD,DVD) but start connecting them to online sellers:

I was just thinking, I never had a chance to play HL2 because I was offline, and I simply refused to "play along" with a forced online unlock process. Same with FC2 by the way. I got the game when it was released (October 2008?) and only started playing by early 2009 when I went online again. You may laugh, but the only reason I "came back" (online) was for FC2 because there was no other way to get it unlocked. Another F...ING forced registration. And the list is growing. Hats off to BIS for releasing ArmA2 on a disc without online registration.

[JRD]

I hear you all loud and clear... but on the other end are the so called "emergent markets" (God, I hate that term) with stupid taxes and policy...
One reason I see to keep LA out of that list might be local policy for hardware and software, consoles included, from overseas...
A PS3 costs today between US$ 750 to 1,000 and a game is about US$75 - 150.
Add that to a developing economy and you won't have successful sales figures (considering that companies such as Sony or Microsoft seeks huge profits, obviously)... which eventually leads to piracy.
The idea is simple... I want a console or a gaming PC but can't afford one and if I could, I wouldn't afford game titles on a regular basis. What do I do? Buy an "unlocked" PS3 and pirate games for much less.
Companies won't provide games and consoles to be copied by pirates, so they just leave the market or set a huge price due to both piracy and internal taxes for import (which the government claim to adopt as a way to "protect our internal market").
Who's left without reasonable prices for games, computers and electronics in general? Us, Latin Americans.  :(

Then comes STEAM..... pay US$49,99 for ARMA2 or US$39,99 for FUEL, download, auto install and play... no taxes for import, just a few minutes away if you have a credit card.... No, I don't own an A2 hardcopy, CD, DVD or whatever, just the license to play it, but I DON'T CARE...

Another solution I found was to have a friend getting a copy of FUEL for me at amazon and ship it over to me... US$36,00 plus shipping taxes (8 days later was in my hands)... absolutely legal - as a Brazilian citizen I'm allowed to get into my country with US$500 worth in any products free of taxes, electronics included. But I need someone to do it for me in the US...

How hard is to set lower prices in a market that has MILLIONS of potential buyers?
Basically, in a developing economy, people can't afford to buy something expensive if it may not function well... I'm sure that most consumers would choose to buy legitimate products if they were less expensive... I rather have an original console and game than a pirate version that can jam, malfunction or carry a deadly virus to my PC... If it's a broken product, who do I complain for? Some pirates give you a "warranty", but they might as well say "no".....

My point is (yes, I have a point):
Sony and Microsoft doesn't want to join the LA market as it is now (with better prices, I mean) because of low projection of profits and also because the government doesn't want to let them in due to an "internal market protection" policy.
As long as the big picture remains the same, digital (legal) downloads will be the solution for PC gamers and console players are screwed or left in the hands of pirates.
Hopefully, with time, as Fiach said, digital delivery and second hand products will chenge that mentality and consumers will have a better product with better prices!

/rant mode off as well  ;D

[Art Blade]

 ;D hehe

Obviously it is great if you are in the jungle, mountains, desert... have a satellite dish and a fancy laptop, download software and that's it. Question is, how did you get the laptop and the dish?  ;D

[JRD]

Thankfully broadband is common here, mine is 3MB and very stable  :)
The PC is quite expensive but it's not only a gaming platform, also a working tool for me and the wife, so its a good investment. Upgrading little by little with time... next is a better processor and mother board, then 2 x 500GB HDs...  ;)

[Art Blade]

I miss a feature in games these days we were used to back in the day: start your own server (launch game, make it MP, tell a friend your IP and get connected). We could easily play fuel p2p. At least some games still offer that option. I mean, without the need of a forced unlock or joining some gaming network first.

[fragger]

Forced rego is annoying enough, but what also irritates me is that digital DLs of large games such as HL2 eat massively into your internet DL allocation, and if you're on a prepaid broadband wireless account like I am (I can't get DSL in this particular boondock) and you want to download these games, your DL allocation is gone in no time, forcing you to pay to top it up that much sooner. So the telcos are probably rubbing their hands together over this trend as well.

As for Steam... where do I find the rant key?

[Art Blade]

As for Steam... where do I find the rant key?

I don't understand the question... want to lock your mouth not to start ranting big style?  :)

[fragger]

I don't understand the question... want to lock your mouth not to start ranting big style?  :)

;D You got it - I might wake up the missus.

I miss a feature in games these days we were used to back in the day: start your own server (launch game, make it MP, tell a friend your IP and get connected). We could easily play fuel p2p. At least some games still offer that option. I mean, without the need of a forced unlock or joining some gaming network first.

Memories... (cue "the way we were")
I remember when a bunch of us would rock up to a friend's house with our PCs, hook 'em all up, make one the server and play Doom all afternoon. No online unlock or provider fees, the only cost was electricity and the petrol to get us all there.
(sigh...)

[PZ]

...I remember when a bunch of us would rock up to a friend's house with our PCs, hook 'em all up, make one the server and play Doom all afternoon. No online unlock or provider fees, the only cost was electricity and the petrol to get us all there.
(sigh...)

I did exactly the same with Doom! (the first version).  Man, that was high technology in them days... ;)

[Art Blade]

Me too! and Duke Nukem 3D! and that a LOT :) called it "LAN party"

[PZ]

Sometimes I miss those good 'ol DOS days - was able to do most anything if you had a mind to, all without the overhead of the gui.  My first PC didn't have a HD, and came only with 256l ram.  I upped it to 640k so I could assign 360k to a ramdisk and copy a word processor, spreadsheet, and database into ram, then run the programs via batch file in the remaining ram.  Talk about efficiency of programming - all those features stored and running in 640k ram and no HD.  If I recall correctly, they were called PFS Write, File, and Sheet (I think)